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»	Cruise Talk » Technically Speaking » A ship's true top speed

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Topic: A ship's true top speed

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 11-06-2002 11:33 AM

There is much debate on the top end of the SS United States. Official trials maxed at 38 knots.
Reports note 44 knots.

The Queen Elizabeth 1 logged in at 36 knots in war duty.

The QE2's trail speed is 33 knots, With all the MEP [mechanical-electrical-plumbing] shut down,
She can max 36.

I was told by an expert that Rembrandterdam, which tops 24 knots, did 28.5 knots on one leg of a voyage where all hot water, air conditioning, and electrical was shut down.

When they trial speed a ship, are all normal MEP running as if with passengers?

When I hear of incredible top speeds, do they turn everything off to "peg the needle"?

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 11-06-2002 12:46 PM

When a ship is ordered to a shipyard a maximum speed is included in the contract; if this speed is not reached during the sea trials the shipyard has to pay a huge amount of money. For this reason during this sort of tests the ship is not running like during her normal operations; this is true especially with diesel-electric ship nowadays (and steam ship in the past), where the diesel engines are producing the electrical power for both the propulsion motors and for all the services around the ship (galleys, air conditioning, lighting, etc.). During a normal cruise, a ship is going slightly faster during the night when the galleys are shut down and more power is available! There is another slight difference between the sea trials and the normal cruising: during the sea trials the ship is pushed to the maximum, while during the life of the ship the engine department doesn't like to do that. When we are talking about speed we have to clarify if we are referring to sea speed or ground speed: in areas with strong current the two speeds can be diffent (in Alaska the Infinity and the Millenium have reached 30 knots, as reported by some local pilots!). The ground speed is measured using the GPS, so it's value is more accurate than the sea speed (measured with the log or with the Doppler).

Ryndam

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 11-06-2002 01:51 PM

I have it on good authority that Big U did 48 knots during her trials. One of the original ship designers told me this in 1979.

20 knots in reverse!!

I know that when I crossed the Atlantic on the Zenith from the shipyard when she was new...the Captain wanted to break in the engines carefully so we only crossed at about 10 knots or so all the way across the Atlantic..it took us 10 days. This long trip also gave us time to rehearse for the shows, assemble the ping-pong tables, stock the library and cruise staff equipement.

Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 11-07-2002 09:40 PM

Maximum Speed...another of these things that has many variables. The type of power plant machinery, steam or motor.
You have to keep in mind that on trials the builders are very intent on making sure that they exceed the guarantee speed in the contract, or else penalties start building up.
The vessel is ballasted to it's optimum steaming draft and trim, and they make sure it's good fuel they're using. The engine makers reps are there to fine tune everything. The hull is spotless underwater.
This is the sort of clinical episode in a ship's life, but it is followed by reality. Why is it with two exact sisterships that one will run quite happily at 110rpm but the other will only do 107? Why did some of the WWII Libertys have a hard time trying to make 10Kts and others romped along at going on for 12?
Thats the interesting thing that drives designers nuts.
Then of course you can be on a ship like an icebreaker on full power, even up on 100% overload, and be stopped!!.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Eric
First Class Passenger
Member # 2724

posted 11-08-2002 12:48 PM

Slightly OT, all this talk of ship speed prompts me to tell a well known story. Back in 40's & 50's when we still had a Navy there were in the RN fleet 3 fast 3 funnel minelayers. After combined exercises in Atlantic with USA navy they all set off for shore leave in Gibralter. A USA destroyer cranks up to about 40 knots, goes past the minelayer & signals "you are now being passed by fastest ship in American navy"
Minelayer cranks up to top speed & leaves it standing, signaling " you are now being passed my slowest ship in Royal Navy"
Well I like the story anyway!
PS current sailing record by wind power over 500mts is 46.52 knots set in oct 93 & this year Maiden2 set a 24 hour record of 694.78 NM = 28.95 knots av speed. A few cruise liners wish they could do that!
Eric

Posts: 421 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged

Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 11-08-2002 12:52 PM

GREAT story, Eric! Excellent!!!!

Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 01-13-2004 12:12 PM

For SSLewis

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 01-14-2004 05:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by desirod6:
There is much debate on the top end of the SS United States. Official trials maxed at 38 knots.
Reports note 44 knots.
The Queen Elizabeth 1 logged in at 36 knots in war duty.
The QE2's trail speed is 33 knots, With all the MEP [mechanical-electrical-plumbing] shut down,
She can max 36.
I was told by an expert that Rembrandterdam, which tops 24 knots, did 28.5 knots on one leg of a voyage where all hot water, air conditioning, and electrical was shut down.
When they trial speed a ship, are all normal MEP running as if with passengers?
When I hear of incredible top speeds, do they turn everything off to "peg the needle"?

The tss Rotterdam 5 top speed running all normal MEP is 26 knots. This told a former engine room crew member in a t.v. news report back in 1997. The ship reach this speed in a gale force.
Not bad fore a 37 years old ship and machinery.

David thanks about the top speed info off the Rotterdam i'don't no that she was able to reach 28.5 knots.

Do anyone no the real speed off the m.s. Rotterdam 6. Official reports say 26 knots.
What say the unofficial reports about her speed.

Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 01-15-2004 12:25 PM

Yes Desirod?
Ok my word is that it is a very expandable subject, max speed.
More factors may be worth considering, like displacement and draught.
When a ship is near the end of a voyage or about to bunk, she is much lighter (displaces less water) , so is faster. Learnet this whilst hill climbing cars in the caribbean..never on a full tank!
Airline pilots told me the same when I worked at Heathrow airport!
I actually saw the needle go from 34 to 35+ knots on QE2 in 1987 on a Westbound Transatlantic.
A concierge in Le Havre told me that he used to steer the ssFrance, and it was common for the vessel to exceed her 35,22knots with bad weather, before bulbous bowand propellers redesign.
He told me that a CGT-US lines agreement had no difficulty to be met.
ssFrance did 37 knots easily during her World cruises and it was with full tanks, about 10 000tons extra.
Same applied to Antilles and Flandres, who could follow Eugenio C at 28 knots, although officially it was 26.5 max!
I wonder about the huge waves !
ssLewis

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 01-15-2004 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Maasdam:
The tss Rotterdam 5 top speed running all normal MEP is 26 knots. This told a former engine room crew member in a t.v. news report back in 1997.

We were on Rotterdam back in July of 1997 and had the pleasure of dining with the Chief Engineer and his wife a number of evenings (...fyi, officers have access to a more extensive wine list ).

Anyway, one evening we were in the Ocean Bar for cocktails before dinner and as we stood looking out the windows all of a sudden we felt a strong shudder and then a noticeable increase in speed. Speed changes numerous times over the next hour and we might have even gone backwards.

It turns out that potential buyers were onboard for that leg of the trip - which was the only portion outside of the Inside Passage and they were apparently demonstrating the ship's engine capabilities. It certainly made for an interesting cocktail hour.

Joe at TravelPage.com

Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-07-2004 10:26 PM

So the QM2 is the widest, then what about speed.
Parallel topic

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 10-09-2004 05:04 AM

A bit like me David, fat boys or girls have problems in the water..as in QM2.
Reports suggests that QE2 had to slow down constantly during the tandem in order not to overtake QM2!

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-09-2004 07:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sslewis:
Reports suggests that QE2 had to slow down constantly during the tandem in order not to overtake QM2!

That sounds like a myth to me?

Would not the two ships simply cruise at the same rate of knots, with no catching up or slowing down required? After all they must have been in constant communication with each other?

Neither would need to achieve anything near thier maximum speed on such a crossing.

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

cruiseshipluver
First Class Passenger
Member # 5104

posted 10-09-2004 10:57 PM

i read earlier in the posts that Infinity and Millenium did 30knots in Alaska??????
wow, i knew they were brisk but i didnt know they could sail that quickly for big square blocks in the ocean....lol

cruiseshipluver

Posts: 1797 | From: Barbados--cruiseship capital of the Southern Caribbean | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

Jon
Just Boarded
Member # 5148

posted 10-24-2004 05:15 AM

This post brings me to something I have been wondering about QE2.

The most engines generally used is eight of her nine, but at the other end of the scale what is the least number used while at sea? I calculate that only two engines are needed for 13 knots, so does she ever run on two?

(In combinator mode and ready to sail mode she runs on four engines, in free sailing can this be less?)

And.....taking this to extremes, could she, theoretically, run with just one engine, probably good for 7 knots.

Jon

Posts: 7 | From: Edinburgh Scotland UK | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

Johan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4458

posted 10-24-2004 08:45 AM

You have a very nice homepage, Jon, with beautiful pics of the big ships...

Posts: 1895 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged

Jon
Just Boarded
Member # 5148

posted 10-24-2004 04:35 PM

Thanks Johan

I enjoy sharing my pictures.

Some of the shots are the result of a lot of planning, others I have come across by chance.

I don't know which is my favourite but the ones of QE2 and QM2 in New York from the helicopter and the ones of SS-Norway at anchor (I took about 200 photos that day) are ones that still grab my attention. The Norway/France has such fantastic lines that it almost impossible to get a bad photo of her though.

There are some pics of the Queen Mary at the end of the SS-Norway trip too that you will probably like.

I will be on QE2 in a week and hope to get some good interior shots, something I've not managed yet.

Jon

Posts: 7 | From: Edinburgh Scotland UK | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 10-24-2004 06:05 PM

Love all the food on QM2 Jon

Some great photos over all your site.
Pam

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-24-2004 09:57 PM

Great shots Jon,

You got me in the April 22 photo of the crowd in front of the QM2 in New York. Small World

[ 10-24-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Jon
Just Boarded
Member # 5148

posted 10-25-2004 04:45 PM

Thanks Pam. I admit that I do over the top with the food photography, it is all part of the sharing the experience thing. Whenever anyone asked what the food was like on board I can show them a few hundred photos. I have only just managed to get food photography sorted out, the QM2 trip was were I started to realise the correct techniques. My next trip should have some good food pics.

Hey Desirod7, we have kind of met. The crowd photos are not great but they were more to show the scene than anything else. I expected far more people to be there. I was hoping for something like when the Queen Mary or QE2 arrived in NY for the first time.

Posts: 7 | From: Edinburgh Scotland UK | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 11-01-2004 10:25 AM

About true speed....
I was watching a ferry coming in the harbourg narrow entrance at the usual mandatory 7 knots.
The very strong ebb Spring tide threw ahuge bow wave, despite the ship moving majestically.
However, her funnel belched more than usual as the propeller laboured against the tide.
It was very revealing...
A ship going to America will face the Gulfstream all the way to Newfouland, but travel with it as did ssUS on her first crossing.
Yet, the Channel may cause strong currents...
Another thing...
Did the Saxonia class really reached 28knots?
They only had 30k BHP and a good hull form, yet I doubt they could do more than 26 knots(24 on trials)....

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-02-2006 10:23 AM

for 6263866 parallel top speed topic

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 04-22-2010 12:43 PM

for today's discussion about how fast the QM2 can go

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Guest
First Class Passenger
Member # 1157

posted 04-25-2010 08:36 AM

Maxtone-Graham states:

...she averaged 29.62 knots, comfortably exceeding the contractual 29.35. Once, she topped 30.

(Queen Mary 2: The Greatest Ocean Liner of Our Time. ISBN 0821228854)

I doubt QM2 would need to be pushed to her MAX max speed because, as we see, fuel savings have meant 6 night Atlantic Crossings have become 7... so no need to push her.

Posts: 1888 | From: Earth | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

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