One of the nice things about the NCL ships (except for the EPIC) is the trademark Spinnaker Lounge, located up high and overlooking the bow. These make for great observation lounges and views forward, which are increasingly rare on cruise ships.

Rich

[ 02-24-2011: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

We did a sailing on Nor Star a few years ago, nearly identical sister to Nor Dawn. We found the ship to be below the standards of either Princess or RCI, with one exception--the Spinnaker Lounge. We LOVED that space and spent every day enjoying drinks and the view there. It's one thing NCL got right about these ships, and now they're going to take it away to generate more revenue with cabins.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
I am surprised they did not take out the cinema instead...

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Not instead, but as well!

"The deluxe owner’s suites (Cat. SA), will be located under the bridge for big forward sea views. They will have dimensions of 667sq ft to 732sq ft each.

Each family accommodation will sleep up to six people and will offer a spacious bathroom.

The family suites (Cat. SJ), will have floor-to-ceiling windows and a high-deck location near the pool. Dimensions will be 408sq ft to 452sq ft. The family balcony suites will be essentially the same size and add large balconies built out from the ship’s superstructure.

The new inside accommodations (Cat. IC) will measure 142sq ft to 174sq ft.

The suites are going into the areas currently occupied by the Spinnaker Lounge and the movie theater. Those facilities will be moved and upgraded, Gladding said, providing for a better flow and more efficient layout".

(Seatrade Insider)

So how are they going to move the Spinnaker Lounge and the movie theater and upgrade them? Where's the space?

[ 02-24-2011: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

The before and after deck plans for DAWN on NCL.com show nothing being moved at all, just eliminated. But if you look at STAR you will see what may (?) happen to DAWN. That is, the Spinnaker Lounge goes where the Galleria Shops are now, Galleria to what is now Dazzles Lounge and Nightclub and the Photo Gallery, Photo Gallery to what is now Blue Lagoon and Blue Lagoon to the starboard side of Salsa. The cinema seems to be gone for good.

I fail to see how this can be considered an upgrade in any sense, regardless of what NCL's PR says.

I have seen the "enhancements" done to the Star and honeslty the new Spininikers is dreadful looking and the new cabins in no way fit into the decor for the rest of the suites on the ship!

I know NCL is doing this to make more money, I realize that is the only thing that drives corporations. I always say why don't they axe all the top brass salaries and bonuses and then they also may make some extra mula. For God sake they are not saving the world they are just cruise line execs do they really need to be paid triple digit salaries or millions. Sorry! I get annoyed I am a teacher and make nothing and I am supposedly "helping" society. I know I have summers off.....Oh wait I work summers!

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Originally posted by dougnewman:
I fail to see how this can be considered an upgrade in any sense, regardless of what NCL's PR says.

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I sailed on Jade of few years ago (Jewel class)which has a lot of similarities to Dawn class . There really are not too many 'public' rooms, if you discount all of the dining rooms and open-plan bars.

Losing the Spinnaker/moving it/shrinking it, is definitely a step back-wards. The whole point of an observation bar is for it to be perched high above the bridge. It's undermines the ships design.

[ 02-24-2011: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Unfortunately there are lots of new passengers to replace the ones that leave over bad decisions like this. No point in complaining because they will always find new passengers.

Holland America got away with it on the Vistas, but that did not take public space, Princess blew up the Grand class, and as a result ruined the space ration (in my opinion). Apparantly Oriana is looking set to have new cabins placed on deck 8 of the terrace decks forcing the pool and recreation areas up one level.

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Originally posted by Sutho:
Allot of these decisions to rennovate ships are done based on greed. I wonder if we will ever see a cruise line again that caters to passenger comfort and gives what passenger wants opposed to a blind pursuit for unlimited profits.

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Originally posted by DAMBROSI2:
It appears that no matter what NCL does, it's not helping them win passengers....

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On the contrary, NCL have just had their most successful year ever. NCL claim that Epic is their most successful ship ever. They are confident enough to order two more mega-ships, not much smaller than Epic.

A friend many years ago dubbed a foriegn Bruce Lee 'B' film and was off the see the Samauri warriors.

He said Bruce Lee is Chinese, Samauri is Japanese?

Producer responded: "Those assholes won't know the difference"

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

On the contrary, NCL have just had their most successful year ever. NCL claim that Epic is their most successful ship ever. They are confident enough to order two more mega-ships, not much smaller than Epic.

When people book a cheap mass market cruise on Dawn they will not be worried (or even know) about the old Spinnaker lounge.

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That's the point. As disgusted as some of us might be, I am sure it is the 'right' decision since indeed most passengers won't miss that lounge anyhow. From a different point of view (which is not mine) one could say that the ship is now nicer since it has more nice suites.

Beside all that one must certainly not only blame the cruise lines for that - to be successful they have to deliver what customers want and that's what they are doing (and the customers want nice suites and not so much observation lounges).

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Look e.g. at Oceania - the R-ships are in a way the epitome of a 'resonably built' ship and this has been contiuned with Marina. I am sure she will be very successful and popular ship and she is in a way an improvment over the R-ships but I would not be satisifed with the (lack of) open deck space and some other deficits - mind you, I doubt that those deficits are perceived as such by most passengers. Since these features (e.g. promenade deck) are not used by too many passengers getting rid of them is certainly 'reasonable'.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

I have sailed the R-ship Regatta twice. Outdoor deck space is not a problem [....]

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Oh, I am absolutely sure that it's not a problem (see my posting above) - it's just VERY boring.

- There is not much 'variety'. It's essentially the area atop of the superstructure, the promende(s) and outdoor space of the restaurant facing aft.

- There is not even an opportunity to walk around the ship (!!). Mind you, this does not necessarily have to be on one level but it's pathetic that one has to go inside to do that.

- There is no unobstructed view to the front.

- As far as I know, there is only one (!!!) open deck space with a view astern (I have been told the deck above is not open to the public) - and that is the outdoor area of a restaurant, one actually has to go inside to get there (!!).

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
[QB]Losing the Spinnaker/moving it/shrinking it, is definitely a step back-wards. /QB]

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A friend of mine who knows the ship well has pointed out to me that the existing Spinnaker got very little use during the day, unless something was scheduled to take place in there, as it is so out-of-the-way. Moving it to a lower deck, nearer the other public rooms would give it more use.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

As said, I doubt that most passengers aboard the R-ships care about these things - like most passengers probably don't care about having no observation lounge.

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Rotterdam V and Le France did not have forward observation lounges. Then again they were designed for winter time transatlantic. The forward observation lounges on the Loveboats would pop windows during Force 8 and above.

NCL Dawn is a warm weather ship for the most part and there is outdoor observation space over the stubby bow. In Alaska one needs indoor observation space.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]

The forward observation lounges on the Loveboats would pop windows during Force 8 and above. [...]

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Originally posted by Ernst:

No, they won't "pop'. This is actually proven by the fact that ships with forward facing lounges featuring large windows frequently encounter very, very severe weather conditions - certainly farworse than a 'force 8' storm - and it is still extremely rare that a window fails catastrophically.

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The social host Joy told me so and some of them were mismatched in tint when I sailed her.

Recall the bridge windows on the ROC Explorer in a North Pacific typhoon that knocked out the electronics.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[....]
Recall the bridge windows on the ROC Explorer in a North Pacific typhoon that knocked out the electronics.

In fact there was a media circus when the NCL Dawn broke a few forward balcony windows and the passageways flooded.

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Yes, windows do break, accidents do happen. And yes, one can't prepare for everything - even massive steel doors were deformed by waves.

Do you think air travel is unsafe because planes do crash occasionally? I would hope not.

Those few incidents that made the news have to be seen in context of of all those ship with such windows that frequently encounter extreme conditions without a window failing.

'Force 8 storms' are more common than you might think - even cruise ships encounter that once in a while - not to talk about all those ferries that sail through really, really bad storm at times on a daily basis - and yes, they also have large windows (for decades now) and they do not 'pop'.