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[ 08-24-2010: Message edited by: Atlcruiser ]
quote:Originally posted by Atlcruiser:[...] Amazing what they have now taken from both RCI and NCL to add to their new ships. Nothing innovative here as it's all been done by the competition. [...]
Can you be a bit more specific?
An Italian restaurant ... gee who has that
An indoor-outdoor space .... gee ... well they did not go for grass
A steakhouse ....
The industry has been known to copy each other's best ideas and this one looks like no exception.
At least the left the bathroom alone .... but as I said copy the best ideas .... not the worst
quote:Originally posted by SSTRAVELER:Yes it does look like the Carnival Epic Rip-off of the Seas.An Italian restaurant ... gee who has thatAn indoor-outdoor space .... gee ... well they did not go for grassA steakhouse ....The industry has been known to copy each other's best ideas and this one looks like no exception.At least the left the bathroom alone .... but as I said copy the best ideas .... not the worst
Excuse me, but how is e.g. an Italian restaurant a copy of NCL or RCI? Carnival might not put that much of an emphasis on so-called 'innovations' like other lines but to say that they are copying RCI or NCL is 'a bit' far fetched.
Deny it if you want, Carnival set back for years and watched their competition pass them up in ship design. Nothing innovative at all. Of course I guess they were smart. Let someone else do it first and then copy it. Of course the finished product does not match their competition. Typical Carnival.
quote:Originally posted by Atlcruiser:And since when did Carnival care about those things? They have been building the same ship over and over for years without adding anything new. All of a sudden they see their competition passing them in all areas and rush to add things like Cantilevered whirlpools, water parks, family staterooms all of which were already on RCI. Now they decided to add a pub with food. NCL??? They added family style Italian dining. Oasis? LMAO.Deny it if you want, Carnival set back for years and watched their competition pass them up in ship design. Nothing innovative at all. Of course I guess they were smart. Let someone else do it first and then copy it. Of course the finished product does not match their competition. Typical Carnival.
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1: What's left that is so 'innovative' that won't be copying someone that has already done it?
Well there are going to be a couple firsts on CARNIVAL MAGIC. One being an outdoor weight lifting area. Think "muscle beach" in Venice California. This holds no interest for me personally.
Your point above is well taken, but let us hope that new innovations, not just the same rehashed ideas, can still be forthcoming in the cruise industry. I think Royal Caribbean, NCL, and Disney have pushed the envelope. I like to think there are still some creative minds out there (not including the accountants!), coming up with new ideas that will not only be popular to the cruising public, but viable to the cruise company as well.
Regarding much of CARNIVAL MAGIC, it's "been there, done that", but at least Carnival seems to be awakening from a long nap. They have been sluggish when it comes to implementing ideas that much of the mass-market cruise industry has already embraced. They are probably the most traditional of all the mass-market cruise companies. I think they even still have midnight buffets?? Of course Carnival has been limited by a basic ship design that is well over 10 years old, and there is only so much new you can stuff into a CARNIVAL DESTINY.
Ernie
[ 08-24-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Well there are going to be a couple firsts on CARNIVAL MAGIC. One being an outdoor weight lifting area. Think "muscle beach" in Venice California. This holds no interest for me personally.Your point above is well taken, but let us hope that new innovations, not just the same rehashed ideas, can still be forthcoming in the cruise industry. I think Royal Caribbean, NCL, and Disney have pushed the envelope. I like to think there are still some creative minds out there (not including the accountants!), coming up with new ideas that will not only be popular to the cruising public, but viable to the cruise company as well.Regarding much of CARNIVAL MAGIC, it's "been there, done that", but at least Carnival seems to be awakening from a long nap. They have been sluggish when it comes to implementing ideas that much of the mass-market cruise industry has already embraced. They are probably the most traditional of all the mass-market cruise companies. I think they even still have midnight buffets?? Of course Carnival has been limited by a basic ship design that is well over 10 years old, and there is only so much new you can stuff into a CARNIVAL DESTINY.Ernie[ 08-24-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]
Ernie, this comment from the big board had me laughing. This was from a host on the board. It was in response to someone asking where the WOW was. LOL!!!!!!
"I see a lot of wow... perhaps different eyes... different perspective.
You won't see the Magic being a knock off of another ship and especially not another line.
I'm not sure what WOW you're looking for but I find the ship to be very impressive and apparently a number of folks here agree."[B][/B]
quote:Originally posted by Atlcruiser:Ernie, this comment from the big board had me laughing. This was from a host on the board. It was in response to someone asking where the WOW was. LOL!!!!!!"I see a lot of wow... perhaps different eyes... different perspective.You won't see the Magic being a knock off of another ship and especially not another line. I'm not sure what WOW you're looking for but I find the ship to be very impressive and apparently a number of folks here agree."[B][/B][ 08-24-2010: Message edited by: Atlcruiser ]
Yes well I can only guess which "host". A few are just puppets of Carnival and also have a very narrow vision. They are happy cruising one line and are loyal like a dog. Some are quick to put down other lines regardless if they have personal experience or not. They take what they read on CC at face value, which is sad especially considering they moderate the board.
I commented to someone recently that the average Carnival customer is probably quite content in a nice, clean, comfortable new ship full of nice bars and big pools, food that gets better reviews that som of the other mass market lines, and shows that don't take a college degree or complex understanding of American humor to understand it. Maybe they didn't need all the 'innovation' to keep bringing them back. It was 'something' that kept them coming back, just not all the novelties and gimmicks that Royal Caribbean kept having to introduce to shake things up.
But in all seriousness some people can be so fastidious! Im not that kind of person so for me personally this ship is a remarkable and I cant wait to sail on her and I honestly dont see any NCL or RCL in her, I think people are hallucinating.
Cam J
In your veiw a ship has to have 15+ resturants and "Gimmicks Galore" to be sail worthy, and thats just preposterous and unrealistic. I am a very seasoned cruiser and I never get tired of Carnival, Royal or NCL.
Now back on topic, everything looks great, better than I thought at least. The Pub is an excellent idea and so is the itallian resturant. The only thing I really dislike is the charge, it seems Carnival has fallen into the extra tariff gang and thats dissapointing. It also seems like Joe has toned the colors down a bit. I will be sailing this ship in the future and you can all read my reveiw afterward.
The website is very good. It is very well put together (well for being FLASH). Conveys the point, great animations and renderings.
I hope for the sake of this class of ships, CCL figures out the crowding problems and gets it right with the Magic.
And one Tech CEO (whose name shall not be mentioned) states "good artists copy, great artists steal." Not saying Carnival "steals."
A business cannot live on ship design alone...
quote:Originally posted by joe at travelpage:While Carnival Corp may not have been as innovative as RCL in terms of ship design, their stock price has outpaced RCL time and again over the past 17 years.
Great news for long term Carnival investors, but I'm not an investor in any cruise company, nor do I want to be. I'm a consumer and the stock price certainly has no impact as to what company I feel offers a superior product. The same holds true for many industries that earn my business. I'll take In-N-Out over McDonalds, Apple over Microsoft, Target over Walmart, etc. etc. I'm many cases I'm drawn to the less successful company based on what I consider a superior product, even though it may cost slightly more. Perhaps unlike the majority of American consumers, I'm not simply price driven. I look beyond the bottom line. More important than the stock price to me, is the quality of the product being delivered, and the overall value proposition (real or perceived).
For investors, a quick review of RCI and CCL stock prices shows that a short term (year over year) investment in RCI would have offered a better return compared to CCL. This is based on today's closing price compared to that one year ago.
This reported by CBS Business News:
According to its SEC filing, 55% of Royal Caribbean’s long-term debt is on a “floating” interest rate, and starting in 2012, if its credit rating drops below BBB, it has to post collateral. (Currently, its rating is BB- with a negative outlook.)
[ 08-24-2010: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]
quote:Originally posted by joe at travelpage:While Carnival Corp may not have been as innovative as RCL in terms of ship design, their stock price has outpaced RCL time and again over the past 17 years. A business cannot live on ship design alone...
What happened in 2000?
quote:Originally posted by GregD:What happened in 2000?
The dot.com bubble burst in March of 2000 and the entire market crashed. The next big drop is due to the market tanking following the September 11th attacks.
Joe at TravelPage.com
quote:Originally posted by joe at travelpage:The dot.com bubble burst in March of 2000 and the entire market crashed. The next big drop is due to the market tanking following the September 11th attacks. Joe at TravelPage.com
What I find interesting is that the Voyager of the Seas launch in 1999 seems to have pushed RCCL ahead of Carnival for a short period but both the Freedom of the Seas and Oasis of the Seas seem to have had no noticeable impact.
Good for Carnival. I don't buy cruise line stock. Some do just to receive the on board credit. As long as the cruise line that I choose to cruise is still in business giving me a great overall cruise experience then I'm happy. I will let the investors worry about the other things.
[ 08-25-2010: Message edited by: nycruiser ]
quote:Originally posted by Atlcruiser:Good for Carnival. I don't buy cruise line stock. Some do just to receive the on board credit. As long as the cruise line that I choose to cruise is still in business giving me a great overall cruise experience then I'm happy. I will let the investors worry about the other things.
I do. I bought transportation stock during this recent recession. Got quite a bargain. Not a good thing to hold long term but its not very many shares.
Here is my take on this subject, I don't really care for all the latest stuff, last year we booked a cruise on the Carnival Dream, after reading some stories and talking to friends we trust we switched to a cruise on the Spirit, why, well frankly, we would rather have things done right than have all the latest toys done ok.
I really don't care for the Dream or the Magic, frankly the RCL Oasis leaves me a little cold (but from everything I have read and talking to friends who have sailed on her RCL has nailed that ship) I would rather spend my hard earned money on something I know will be good.
t's actually amazing to see how some people 'fall for the marketing' and get excited about gimmicks installed on ships that would not get any attention at all if they were ashore or about features which are actually not new at all (like larger cabins 'for families' - such cabins have been around for a long time - even before Disney). Sadly, also more profound innovations like the split superstructure or balconies can be traced back to the early 1980ies - so even in that case it's therefore a bit far fetched to call that innovative.
Carnival Magic won't stand out due to so-called "innovative" features but let's not forget that there are also other ships beside Oasis of the Seas or Norwegian Epic. She won't compete solely against these very recently built ships!Yes, the platform she is based on might be 'old' and it might not be the best design but she certainly has all relevant features of a contemporary cruise ship like most vessels built during the past decades - and that's what counts.
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