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Originally posted by The Big C:
Hey everyone the Big "C" here I just wanted to show you the gorgeous new Carnival Dream pic I know you will like them. Introducing the Carnival Dream the Industry leader of the future!

www.carnival.com

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In my opinion 'Dream' sits well below Oasis, Solstice, Epic and many other ships in the 'innovation' league table. She's just more of the same.

It's a bit annoying.

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Originally posted by GregD:
Actually if were talking about industry leader for the future, it kills me inside to say this, but thats NCL with the N.Epic

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I'm convinced that Big C is not working fore Carnival. That would not be clever the way Big C is talking about Carnival. Not a great PR (with the up most respect to Big C)

Well not the most innovated cruise ship under construction. Maybe not the most handsome. She's certainly not the most ugly. Here interiors get over it. look at the others RCI the last years have not really came up with new interiors. Only there ships became bigger and blinding many among us.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
What I don't understand is way it's not done to be hard line Carnival fan. Why not. I have the feeling from time to time, if it's not RCI, Celebrity it's not OK (remember the reactions I received after my thoughts about the interior of Solstice)

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This is not true at all. There are plenty of Celebrity/Royal Caribbean bashers on this board.

I have no problem with someone that prefers a particular brand. I know you prefer HAL, and I happen to like Celebrity, Cunard, Royal Caribbean, and Silversea. Those four lines would probably be my favorites. This being said, I'm not loyal to any one of them and will continue cruising on a variety of lines. How boring it would be to limit yourself to just one. In fact I can assure you I will sail on CARNIVAL DREAM in her first year. I'm looking forward to trying out the "best" Carnival has to offer and it's been a couple years since I last sailed Carnival. Of course with almost 1000 more passengers and essentially the same amount of elevators, public lounges, and deck space I have some skepticism.

I think what annoys people is how "Big C" or whatever his name is goes about supporting Carnival. It's done blindly and with little thought behind it. It's kind of the way an adolescent would go about it and perhaps Big C is just a teenager? That would explain a lot. I remember when I was a kid I loved Carnival and thought they could do no wrong. As I got older and experienced more lines I realized there was a lot more out there than Carnival, and eventually I pretty much outgrew the line although I still enjoy them now and again.

I also think it's tiring seeing multiple threads about the same subject. In this case CARNIVAL DREAM. I felt the same way about all the hype around QUEEN VICTORIA and even SOLSTICE. A few threads is fine, but one is not needed every time a new section is welded to the ship or a pane of glass installed.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
What I don't understand is way it's not done to be hard line Carnival fan. Why not. I have the feeling from time to time, if it's not RCI, Celebrity it's not OK (remember the reactions I received after my thoughts about the interior of Solstice)

Greetings Ben.

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What RCI don't do is play with the notion of the cruise product. By that I mean they have largely stuck to the two sittings, two shows formula developed over the years albeit with a tentative step towards freer style.

I've got to admire the front of the Big C. Despite the fact that everyone of his posts about innovation or beauty or industry leader being responded to with both opinion and in some cases fact, he continues to pedal the same line. It takes some front to keep that kind of post up when you know the reaction, and some devotion to actually believe it.

I think the Dream looks like a nice ship. Presently I plan to sail on her maiden voyage. I like Carnival and think they have a good overall product. But innovative they are not. They have basically built the same ship design but in increasing size since the 1990s. Their onboard product is also very traditional. In fact I would go so far as to say Carnival has had perhaps 5 contenders for industry leader ships in their lifetime.

1) Mardi Gras - brought fun to cruising
2) Tropicale - for showing that new ships just for cruising could work.
3) Fantasy (I think it was this ship, definitely one of this class) - brought a big and new ship to the 3/4 day itinerary
4) Spirit class - for showing how to answer the need for balconies in serious numbers, profitably. A class of ships that with the Vista variants will become the most numerous class of cruise ships ever built.
5) Carnival Destiny - First ship over 100,000grt.

Plus
6) Paradise - failed innovation of the smokeless ship.

On several of these one could argue whether it was really carnival. Especially the Spirit class, in the sense that Princess claim it was their Sun class that really opened up the balcony to mainstream passengers.

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Originally posted by Matts:

I've got to admire the front of the Big C.

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Waterslides - Carnival
SeaSide Theatre - Princess
Adult Area - Princess (and others)
Anytime Dining - NCL / Princess
Whirlpools over the side - RCCL

We can go on, but nothing earth shattering, just a nice new design. Unfortunately Farcus will ruin it with his lack of taste again.

Objectively, the C. Dream is a bigger ship, with more people, designed for no other purpose than to make more money per tonne. In that, there is no fault in the design, it is the kind of thing Carnival does best.

Even though it may not be an Oasis of the 6000 passengers seas or an Epic Disaster its still a great ship.

It may not have the flowrider, or zipline or even an ice bar those things are nice but those dont make a cruise all a sucess. You can have a ship with an ice bar but it can be the ugliest ship at sea. Or a ship can be the biggest best most innovative ship but is so crowded you dont have much space to move around.

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Originally posted by The Big C:
I stand by my statement the Carnival Dream is an Industry leader.

Even though it may not be an Oasis of the 6000 passengers seas or an Epic Disaster its still a great ship.

It may not have the flowrider, or zipline or even an ice bar those things are nice but those dont make a cruise all a sucess. You can have a ship with an ice bar but it can be the ugliest ship at sea. Or a ship can be the biggest best most innovative ship but is so crowded you dont have much space to move around.

Look im not saying Carnival is flawless actually Carnival has a lot to work on, more so than others but its still an industry leader.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

You give us a list of features Carnival Dream does not have. That's fine but hardly explaining why you believe that this ship is an 'industry leader'. -> Can you name anything that would justify to call this ship an 'industry leader'?

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Originally posted by The Big C:
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Even though it may not be an Oasis of the 6000 passengers seas or an Epic Disaster its still a great ship.

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I assume you think OASIS OF THE SEAS with 5400 passengers is too big, but CARNIVAL DREAM with 3652 passengers is ok? I mean who are you kidding? These are both giant ships that will carry thousands of passengers. If you were used to sailing on Seabourn or Silversea I would understand your aversion to large ships. The fact is if you are ok with a ship carrying 3652 passengers then a ship carrying 5400 should be fine too .... or perhaps 4000 passengers is your cut-off?

I'll take my chances with OASIS OF THE SEAS. She will have a space ratio of 40.74 and was designed from scratch to carry this many passengers. Knowing Royal Caribbean, she will be an engineering marvel with an excellent design that accommodates all the passengers in relative comfort.

On the other hand we have CARNIVAL DREAM. A ship that was essentially designed over 13 years ago as the CARNIVAL DESTINY to carry 2642 passengers. Over the years Carnival has stretched the ship, added on two decks of passengers, and the result of this manipulation is CARNIVAL DREAM. A ship that will carry 3652 passengers and have a space ratio of 35.6. Meanwhile the ship will only have two pools, the same amount of elevators, public space, etc. as when this designed was conceived to carry only 2642 passengers.

I have sailed on the CARNIVAL CONQUEST and it was one of the most crowded and poorly designed ships I have ever sailed on. Now imagine that with 1000 more passengers crammed into the same public space.

I can't believe I am even considering sailing on DREAM, but I will just to compare with OASIS and see who offers the better product. Of course I wouldn't dream of sailing on Carnival during the Summer or school holidays, so maybe it won't be too bad.

Carnival may be an industry leader in terms of profitability, just like Walmart and McDonald's, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Without question CARNIVAL DREAM will offer some interesting features, most notably the large outdoor promenade, but the ship will hardly be an industry leader.

The fact is, Carnival has "borrowed" most of their ship "features" from other lines. It's been a very long time since they came up with something on their own. Examples:

1. Hull Balconies - copied from Cunard's QM2
2. Serenity - copied from Princess Cruises "The Sanctuary"
3. Miniature Golf - copied from Royal Caribbean
4. Seaside Theater - copied from Princess - movies under the stars
5. Waterworks - copied from Royal Caribbean's H20 Zone
6. Total Choice - copied from NCL and Princess Cruises
7. Flow Rider - yes, Carnival has one. They did not install it on the ships but at Grand Turk .... and they show it more than once in the new brochure.
8. Deluxe Ocean View with two bathrooms - copied from Disney
9. Jacuzzi's extending out over the ocean - copied from Royal Caribbean
10. Carnival Comfort Bed - copied from any number of lines

Even the signature Carnival funnel was copied from the French Line, and slides into the pool date way back to the Italian Line and perhaps earlier.

Of course Carnival still manages to be the most popular and profitable cruise line, so that says something. Believe me I'm not a Carnival basher and I have probably sailed on them more than most people on this board, but I think you need a dose of reality.

Don't make unsubstantiated statements unless you plan to back them up. Most of us on CT are experienced cruisers and know better. It insults our intelligence.

I'd also add that their logo came from a quick and cheap redo of the CP lines funnel.

In Carnival's case I dont think that they dont have imagination they just decide what belongs on a cruise ship and what doesn't. I remember in my younger days when Carnival just was starting up I thought Carnival was the cheapest most rediculous cruise line on the face of the earth. But I ended up on the Festevale and at first I was reluctant to go but then I got on and fell in love with Carnival. You see what attracted me to Carnival was not how many things they had onboard but the PURE fun they had. Thats why I think Carnival is the true industry leader.

How can Big C be serious complaining about how crowded Oasis is and yet Oasis has a lot better space to passenger ratio.