[ 07-23-2008: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

1) INDEPENDENCE OF THE SEAS ('08) 154,407 gt
2) LIBERTY OF THE SEAS ('07) 154,407 gt
3) FREEDOM OF THE SEAS ('06) 154,407 gt
4) QUEEN MARY 2 ('03) 148,528 gt
5) MARINER OF THE SEAS ('03) 138,279 gt
6) NAVIGATOR OF THE SEAS ('02) 138,279 gt
7) EXPLORER OF THE SEAS ('00) 137,308 gt
8) ADVENTURE OF THE SEAS ('01) 137,276 gt
9) VOYAGER OF THE SEAS ('99) 137,276 gt
10) VENTURA ('08) 116,017 gt

(source: www.equasis.org)

Still to come this year: MSC FANTASIA @ 133,500 gt

I guess right now the Knock Nevis ex Jahre Viking is still the largest ship in service. I think there were some slightly larger ones but they have been scrapped.

[ 07-22-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by rd77:
Right now, the Top 10 is like this:

1) INDEPENDENCE OF THE SEAS ('08) 154,407 gt
2) LIBERTY OF THE SEAS ('07) 154,407 gt
3) FREEDOM OF THE SEAS ('06) 154,407 gt
4) QUEEN MARY 2 ('03) 148,528 gt
5) MARINER OF THE SEAS ('03) 138,279 gt
6) NAVIGATOR OF THE SEAS ('02) 138,279 gt
7) EXPLORER OF THE SEAS ('00) 137,308 gt
8) ADVENTURE OF THE SEAS ('01) 137,276 gt
9) VOYAGER OF THE SEAS ('99) 137,276 gt
10) VENTURA ('08) 116,017 gt

(source: www.equasis.org)

Still to come this year: MSC FANTASIA @ 133,500 gt

Of course RUBY PRINCESS is also due, but she will fall outside the top 10.

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1. Oasis of the Seas
2. Independence of the Seas
3. Liberty of the Seas
4. Freedom of the Seas
5. Queen Mary 2
6. Mariner of the Seas
7. Navigator of the Seas
8. Explorer of the Seas
9. Adventure of the Seas
10. Voyager of the Seas
11. MSC Splendida
12. MSC Fantasia
13. Carnival Dream
14. Celebrity Equinox
15. Celebrity Solstice
16. Ruby Princess
17. P&O Ventura
18. Emerald Princess
19. Crown Princess
20. Caribbean Princess

1. Allure of the Seas
2. Oasis of the Seas
3. Independence of the Seas
4. Liberty of the Seas
5. Freedom of the Seas
6. NCL F3 - 1
7. NCL F3 - 2
8. Queen Mary 2
9. Mariner of the Seas
10. Navigator of the Seas
11. Explorer of the Seas
12. Adventure of the Seas
13. Voyager of the Seas
14. MSC Splendida
15. MSC Fantasia
16. Carnival Magic
17. Carnival Dream
18. Disney Newbuild 1
19. Disney Newbuild 2
20. Celebrity Solstice-class ship

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Originally posted by sunviking82:
I think Oasis and Allure are a big mistake and will be the down fall of RCI.

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We are always one incident away from a global disaster in the cost of oil. If they keep on increasing the daily fuel supplements it may eventually catch up with the cost of the cruise itself. Forecasting the cruise market that far in advance, building this many very large newbuilds, and then trying to fill them in the case of an unforseen economic turndown is incredibly risky. RCI is indeed going to have their hands full. And it will be interesting to see if Celebrity fulfills their obligations on all five of the Solstice-Class. I think Carnival Corp is smart staying on the safe and narrow road, innovations or not.

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Originally posted by Carlos Fernandez:
... and by when 2012 ends:

1. Allure of the Seas
2. Oasis of the Seas
3. Independence of the Seas
4. Liberty of the Seas
5. Freedom of the Seas
6. NCL F3 - 1
7. NCL F3 - 2
8. Queen Mary 2
9. Mariner of the Seas
10. Navigator of the Seas
11. Explorer of the Seas
12. Adventure of the Seas
13. Voyager of the Seas
14. MSC Splendida
15. MSC Fantasia
16. Carnival Magic
17. Carnival Dream
18. Disney Newbuild 1
19. Disney Newbuild 2
20. Celebrity Solstice-class ship

This can change if there are any new orders which can still be done for 2011 and 2012.

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The existing large ships all seem to operate perfectly well when at sea with most pax happy and not concerned about crowds etc but the burgeoning problem is how these ships interact with the ports they visit. The most consistent complaints about these vessels is crushes at embarkation and disembarkation as well as ridiculous waiting times when tendering.

These large ships are also pouring ever larger numbers into exotic ports turning these places into ugly tourist traps. Sure major European ports can absorb an extra 6000 people in mid-summer without too much hassle (God knows Europe is already a crush in summer anyway) but you have to wonder how tropical ports in the Caribbean etc can continue to cope.

Yes, the cruise companies can develop port facilites etc but at the end of the day all that you end up with is a little piece of Americana in a foreign locale and the experience of being overseas is lost completely.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
So what are some of the smallest cruise ships in regular opeartion?

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Originally posted by cruiseshipluver:
Pardon me but I thought QM2 was 151,400 grt
cruiseshipluver

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KNOCK NEVIS is definitely still the biggest ship in the world at about 560,000 DWT.
( more info http://supertankers.topcities.com/id132.htm )

Next biggest are (I think) the 4 ULCC's built in 2002/'03 for Hellespont (Papachristides) of Greece. They are approx. 442,000 DWT each.

(here is one of them at http://supertankers.topcities.com/id239.htm )

After that, I am not sure. Maybe another old ULCC turned into an FPSO. Otherwise, it's down to huge ore carriers. The biggest ore carrier in the world at the moment is still the BERGE STAHL at 364,000 dwt.

( http://supertankers.topcities.com/bulkers/id192.htm )

However, apparently the huge Brazilian iron ore mining company Vale has up to 14(!) ore carriers of 400,000 dwt on order at the Rongsheng yard in China, plus 4 slightly smaller ones of 388,000 dwt at the Bohai yard, also in China (the latter four are ordered together with Bergesen Worldwide). They are considering ore carriers of up to 550,000 dwt. So, it would seem the future of the very largest ships in the world lies with the ore carrier. Indeed, up to 39 older single-hulled VLCC's are also being converted into Very Large Ore Carriers (VLOC's).

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Originally posted by Ernst:
I heard rumors that there are also other ships beside passenger ships.

I guess right now the Knock Nevis ex Jahre Viking is still the largest ship in service. I think there were some slightly larger ones but they have been scrapped.

[ 07-22-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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[ 07-23-2008: Message edited by: rd77 ]

[ 07-23-2008: Message edited by: rd77 ]

[ 07-23-2008: Message edited by: rd77 ]

[ 07-24-2008: Message edited by: rd77 ]

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Originally posted by Ernst:
I heard rumors that there are also other ships beside passenger ships.

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Originally posted by annnthony:
C'mon Malcolm, fix the title......"Bigget"!

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I find it facinating that RCCL has most of the largest ships, yet those ships I will NEVER choose to sail on when it comes to destination and sailing to places where I would want to get off the ship and explore the country. The only time I would sail on their large ships is when I want a holiday with the ship as the destination itself.

RCCL might have something with largest ships - if fuel goes up and airlines go out of business, they just might end up in the business of transporting masses of people across the ocean!! That would be something worth doing. Sailing across the Pacific, Indian and Atlantic Oceans on one of those!

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RCI is indeed going to have their hands full. And it will be interesting to see if Celebrity fulfills their obligations on all five of the Solstice-Class. I think Carnival Corp is smart staying on the safe and narrow road, innovations or not.

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An alternative scenario is that, in a passenger-downturn situation, the majority are attracted to the latest, biggest & glitziest ships. RCI therefore manage to keep attracting an economic number of passengers on board their behemoths, while Carnival find it increasingly hard to fill their smaller and older ships (especially, for instance, the Fantasy class).

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Originally posted by Sutho:
[.....]

RCCL might have something with largest ships - if fuel goes up and airlines go out of business, they just might end up in the business of transporting masses of people across the ocean!! That would be something worth doing. Sailing across the Pacific, Indian and Atlantic Oceans on one of those![...]

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A nice, romantic idea but planes need less fuel per person than ships to do that.

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Originally posted by Sutho:
[.....]
As far as fuel for ships I have heard two other options. One is nuclear, despite its advantages their is always opposition from the uneducated minority who ban such technoligy. The other option I have heard is Hydrogen fuel cell. I personally have never heard anything about the second and dont know anything about it.

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Downsides, well RCI credit rating has slumped mainly due to the amount of debt it is carrying so raising money actually costs them more and at the prices they are paying for the new tonnage they are significanly more expensive ships than those built previously, so not only are they more expensive anyway they cost even more because of their credit rating etc. Likewise credit has become more expensive generally because of the credit crunch etc.

If then because of recession in Europe & US less people travel to save cash RCI is going to have alot of berths hanging around that they will need to fill - proably by discounting, the new ships could then run at a loss while the older ones would be ok, but if they have too many berths the natural reaction would be to dispose of older tonnage etc. problem is that RCI don't have anywhere to put it. Carnival due to large sums of cash in the bank and sheer size can weather this more easily and they have never been expense heavy etc. so they don't need to make retrenchments etc as they are already lean and mean etc. Their business is more widely based not only in geographic terms but also in terms of their pax based on incomes etc. The luxury end of the market is holding up really well even growing quickly - at the other end Carnival is so lean they can afford to discount if they need to a point where others would be loosing money and they would still make a small profit. Personally I am surprised they are ordering more ships for Princess, but then again Japan would love to get into the market so may well be building them at such a discounted price that it is so cheap Carnival couldn't say no. Micky is no ones fool.

Didnt know planes use less fuel per passenger than ships. Been hearing allot in the news lately about airlines fearing they will collapse and go out of business with rising costs of fuel.

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Originally posted by Sutho:
Its a paranoid fear of nuclear powered ships that I think is wrong. There are too many people who have a fear of everything nuclear because of "the bomb" and meltdowns. Too many ports in the world have banned them.

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It for various reasons certainly is a higher risk and more complicated than ashore. (a ship can sink, there is MUCH less space which makes safety measure more difficult, one probably has to used higher enriched fuel etc.)
Nevertheless, beside technical and practical issues just the commissioning process for a new reactor design for a passenger ship (=with people being right atop of it) would be extremely complicated if not entirely impossible.

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Originally posted by Sutho:

Didn't know planes use less fuel per passenger than ships. Been hearing allot in the news lately about airlines fearing they will collapse and go out of business with rising costs of fuel.

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Originally posted by mike sa:
I don't think the Oasis pair will be the downfall of RCI but they are taking risks.

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If the Oasis pair end up being the downfall of Royal Caribbean, then the entire cruise industry will be in pretty bad shape. Personally I don't feel that two ships that carry a combined total of 10,000 passengers is that big of a risk. It's a drop in the bucket of the total capacity that cruises the Caribbean every year. The Caribbean is much less venerable to a recession, as it's fairly cheap for Americans (with a population of over 300 million) to get there. Also the percentage of Americans that have taken is a cruise is still relatively small. What ship will any new cruiser want to sail on? Oasis and her sister of course, just like most Americans want to stay at the newest and largest resorts in Vegas, Miami, and other cities.

Overall, Carnival Corp. has far more tonnage ordered than Royal Caribbean. Yes they have deeper pockets but they are just as susceptible to a major turn in the World economy as Royal Caribbean is. They are even more susceptible to localized changes in the economy due to the fact their brands are so specialized. It can go either way.

I think all this doom and gloom over the Oasis sister ships is a bit hysterical. Personally I believe these two ships will be hugely popular (just like the Voyager / Freedom Class) and will end up being a great investment for Royal Caribbean. They are truly taking "cruising" as we know it to the next level. These ships will attract people that would never consider a cruise otherwise. Royal Caribbean may or may not order more, but I have a feeling eventually more will be ordered, especially when the economy improves ..... and the economy will improve. It's only a matter of when.

If I am proven wrong, then it will be a sad day for the cruise industry, and it's likely we will all have bigger issues to worry about than the success or failure of Royal Caribbean. Not what I want to happen.