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Originally posted by Atlcruiser:
Not a surprise at all and the Holiday will be next. I actually thought that the Holiday would go first.

Gordon

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Originally posted by PamM:

If you were a loyal customer of Iberojet Cruises, used to sailing Grand Voyager & Grand Mistral both relatively small modern vessels, just what will you make of Celebration, the same size as Mistral but some 12 years older and uglier [imho] than Mistral.
The Carnival dumping ground is underway it seems.

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In a developing cruise market the customers will not know any different, especially first timers.

The Holiday class are not 'bad' ships. Cabins are a decent size, a more European decor will help. Duck tails are needed since the Med is a bit rougher than the Carribean.

Holiday class is limited in deployment since they can only provision for 7 days.

[ 09-05-2007: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

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Originally posted by desirod7:

[...] Duck tails are needed since the Med is a bit rougher than the Carribean. [...]

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I believe that this ship is a nice addition to the Iberojet fleet. Her cabins are far better than those of the Grand Mistral and the Grand Voyager, simply because they are larger.

With a good refit Celebration could emerge as a nice medium size stylish european vessel. Don't forget what was done some years ago with the interiors of the former Tropicale.

Frankly I'm just surprised by the fact that the slighty older Holiday wasn't the first ship to be transferred to Iberojet Cruises.

[ 09-05-2007: Message edited by: Italian Cruiser ]

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Since when are there different stability requirements for the Mediterranean? (or ANY other region) Also, a ducktail might increase the uprighting torque (and even have hydrodynamical advantages) but it is very likely making the vessel less comfortable in rough sea.

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Others [liner's list] have noted the Holiday class has poor seakeeping and a poor ride. Her deadweight tonnage is little so no balcony decks can be added.

Except for occasional Hurricanes, the Carribean is a calmer sea than the Med.

What would you suggest to improve the Holiday ships sea-keeping and ride?

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Originally posted by Ernst:
O.K. - but a ducktail might actually make it worse. You get more horizontal surfaces on the hull - which is usually very bad for seakeeping (slamming) - and as the surface piercing area of the hull is increasing (which increases the uprighting torque) it also results in a more pronounced reaction to waves.

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Originally posted by PamM:
the same size as Mistral but some 12 years older and uglier [imho] than Mistral.

Pam

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Why is it necessary to improve sea keeping abilities? I have no idea if they are bad or not, I can't find the LL comments on that aspect. She must conform to the SOLAS regs for stability and survivability which are the same wherever. I do think it is a backwards step for Iberojet.

You may say Spain is a developing market, but not so 'new' and passengers certainly will know the difference. In fact first timers look to new as being better than old; if they bother to look further than the price tag. Anyone will book a new hotel, buy a new car etc in preference to an old one if there is not much price differential [unless they are some sort of enthusiast].

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Originally posted by PamM:
Yup. I am wondering how come the cabins are supposedly larger on Celebration? She has 150 more cabins and carries 300 more pax than Mistral on 2 less passenger decks. On a vessel of the same grt this seems rather odd they can be larger, but many seem to be interiors. It must surely cut the public areas down.

Pam

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Average cabins on CELEBRATION are 185 square feet, versus 140 square feet on MISTRAL, so there is some size difference, but not enough to account for the difference in numbers of rooms. I think there are a lot more interior rooms on the Carnival ship. Each ship has 3 and a half decks devoted to passenger cabins.

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Originally posted by PamM:

You may say Spain is a developing market, but not so 'new' and passengers certainly will know the difference. In fact first timers look to new as being better than old; if they bother to look further than the price tag. Anyone will book a new hotel, buy a new car etc in preference to an old one if there is not much price differential [unless they are some sort of enthusiast].

Pam

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Many developing markets have a limited choice of ships. Mobile Al has the Carnival Holiday, and the Empress of the Seas[not sure, but one of the older ones]. Philadelphia is getting the Norwegian Majesty Miami and Southampton have dozens of ships to choose from.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Except for occasional Hurricanes, the Carribean is a calmer sea than the Med.

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Originally posted by Salaison:

Is that a fact?! .........[...]

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No - this is the other part of the statement above which is 'a bit far fetched' - actually higher waves can be encountered in the Caribbean than in the Mediterranean.

There is certainly no need to modify a passenger ship that served in the Caribbean for service in the Mediterranean.

The Carribean is relatively calm except during hurricane season which lasts a few days.

The Mediterranean is rough through most of the winter. I forget the details but didn't the Iberojet ex-Royal Olympia ship in the Med get severe storm damage whick knocked out the engine controls identical to her sister's mishap?

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Originally posted by Pascal:
There are certainly rough seas more often in the Med than in the Caribbean, especialy in Winter, but I guess a level 5 hurricane is worse than anything the Med has ever seen.

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Originally posted by PamM:

I think the Spanish market have a far greater choice of ships sailing from their shores than almost anywhere else..

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True, however I meant the 'Spanish Speaking" cruise linees such as Pullmantour and Iberojet.

Many lines who call on Spain are English speaking ships with few Spanish passengers.

There is not a lot on the net - but if you do not believe me you can e.g. look at that - not really a difference that makes it necessary to rebuild a ship......

[ 09-06-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Ernst:
Probably not a duck tail.

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