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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Solas 2010 signals death knell for ‘classic’ cruiseships

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Author Topic: Solas 2010 signals death knell for ‘classic’ cruiseships
OceanVoyager
First Class Passenger
Member # 5585

posted 06-25-2007 06:08 AM      Profile for OceanVoyager   Email OceanVoyager   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi everyone, interesting article in todays Lloyds List:-

Solas 2010 signals death knell for ‘classic’ cruiseships

THE fast approaching implementation date of Solas 2010 will have a severe impact on the shape of the existing world cruiseship fleet as the future of a number of ‘classic’ cruise vessels is in doubt.

British operator Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is one of the first operators to confirm a ship loss due to the new regulations, saying that its venerable 1966-built Black Prince will have to cease operations by October, 2010.

However, Fred Olsen has not said whether this former ferry will be sold or scrapped, although the latter is more likely.

Solas 2010 focuses principally on the use of combustible materials. By 2010 no combustible materials will be allowed anywhere in the construction or conversion of any passengership.

Existing cruise ships built under the old Solas 48 rules, which permitted the use of such combustible materials, will be the most affected.

The new Solas regulations, coupled with rising fuel costs and the problems with asbestos, will mean the end of the road for a number of ageing cruiseships and repair and maintenance costs to keep them in service become unrealistic.

There are at present around 30 such vessels still in operation, built between the mid 1950s and mid 1960s.

These are the vessels threatened the most, although some are getting a new lease of life in the cruise industry such as Orient Lines 22,080 gt, 1966-built Marco Polo which has been sold to Greek owners and will start a long-term charter to Transocean of Germany from the summer of next year.

The future for the ageing cruise fleet is very uncertain, with the scrapyard their mostly likely last port of call.

However, a number of vessels will find new careers as floating hotels around the world, like the most famous passenger ship in the world, Cunard’s QE2, which is to end its days at the Palm Jumeirah complex in Dubai.

Other existing cruiseships that look likely to follow this course include the 28,891 gt, 1966-built Oceanic II, the former Swedish America transatlantic liner Kungsholm.

This vessel, which was German operator Holiday Kreuzfahrten’s Mona Lisa until the company went bankrupt last year, is at present on charter to the floating university Scholar Ship.

However, Swedish entrepreneur Lars Hallgren, owner of Top Industri, has signed a letter of intent with the vessel’s Greek owners to acquire the ship, which was built by Clydeside shipbuilder John Brown & Co.

The intention is to restore the vessel to its original appearance, both externally and internally, replacing its twin funnels and aft mast and use the vessel as a floating hotel, restaurant and museum in Gothenburg.

Meanwhile, there are reports that Pullmantur’s 38,772 gt, 1965-built Oceanic could end up as a floating hotel in either Dubai or Melbourne.

Other veterans in firing line
AGEING cruiseships that face an uncertain future due to Solas 2010 include:

Aegean II — 12,609 gt, 1957-built , ex Ivory, ex Ausonia, now operated by Golden Star Cruises of Greece

Andrea — 2,632 gt, 1960-built ,former Norwegian Coastal Express vessel Harald Jarl, now owned by Elegant Cruises & Tours of the US

Arion — 5,885 gt, 1965-built vessel operated by Classic International Cruises of Portugal

Athena — 16,144 gt, 1948-built former transatlantic liner Stockholm, now operated by Classic International Cruises of Portugal

Dalmacija — 5,619 gt, 1965-built , now operated by Adriatic Cruises of Croatia

Funchal — 9,563 gt, 1961-built, operated by Classic International Cruises of Portugal

Kristina Regina — 4,295 gt, 1960-built, owned by Kristina Cruises of Finland

Maxim Gorkiy — 24,981 gt, 1969-built former transatlantic liner Hamburg, now operated by Phoenix Reisen of Germany

National Geographic Endeavour — 3,132 gt, 1966-built former stern trawler Marburg, now operated by US specialist cruise company Lindblad Expeditions

Ocean Majesty — 10,417 gt, 1966-built vessel operated by Majestic International Cruises of Greece

Ocean Monarch — 17,074 gt, 1955-built former passenger-cargoship Port Sydney, now operated by Majestic International Cruises of Greece

Oceanic — 38,772 gt, 1965-built former Home Lines transatlantic liner, now operated by Pullmantur Cruises of Spain. There is interest in turning vessel into floating hotel in either Dubai or Melbourne

Princess Danae — 16,531 gt, 1955-built former passenger-cargoship Port Melbourne, now operated by Classic International Cruises

Regal Empress — 21,909 gt, 1953-built former Greek transatlantic liner Olympia, now operated by US owner Imperial Majesty Cruise Line

Royal Star — 5,360 gt, 1956-built former Italian liner San Giorgio, now operated by African Safari Club of Switzerland

Saga Rose — 24,474 gt, 1965-built former Norwegian liner Sagafjord, now owned by Saga Cruises of Britain

Sapphire — 12,263 gt, 1967-built former Italian liner Italia, now operated by Louis Cruise Lines of Cyprus

Serenade — 14,173 gt, 1957-built former French liner Jean Mermoz, now operated by Louis Cruise Lines

The Calypso — 11,162 gt, 1968-built former Mediterranean ferry Canguro Verde, now owned by Louis Cruise Lines

The Emerald — 26,428 gt, 1958-built former US operator Grace Line’s liner Santa Rosa, now operated by Louis Cruise Lines

The Topaz – 32,327 gt, 1956-built former transatlantic liner Empress of Britain, now owned by Kyma Ship Management of Miami and chartered to Peaceboat of Japan


Posts: 627 | From: Hythe, Southampton, UK | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 06-25-2007 06:24 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is interesting to see them all on one list, we all have talked about it but when you see it together it is quite a shock, if you assume that they all go in one way or another where do you find replacements ? For instance which lines currently have ships that would meet Solas 2010 and that might become available to replace the ships on this list, MSC might want to dispose of Melody and Rhapsody for instance as they no longer fit into the fleet profile and they may want to put a newer ship in SA (as if) but assuming these companies want to stay in business...............easy for Pullmantuur they get another RCI ship but perhaps not for others. One thing is for sure this could easily drive prices up in the short term especially in the Med where most of them cruise as the berths are in effect eliminated from the market at a time when demand is growing.
Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
adriana & norway lover
First Class Passenger
Member # 7184

posted 06-25-2007 06:27 AM      Profile for adriana & norway lover     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and, unfortunately

Adriana — 4 490 gt, 1972-built former Greek operator Hellenic Mediterranean Lines's Aquarius, now operated by Plein Cap Croisières, France


Posts: 199 | From: Caen, France | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
cruisemole
First Class Passenger
Member # 2459

posted 06-25-2007 06:56 AM      Profile for cruisemole   Email cruisemole   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An typically ill informed article from LLoyds.

Some of those ships were built incombustible (eg Oceanic) or refitted incombustible (eg Marco Polo). Such ships might retire soon but it wont be Solas 2010 that kills them.


Posts: 343 | From: dear ol'blighty | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-25-2007 04:04 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OceanVoyager:
British operator Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is one of the first operators to confirm a ship loss due to the new regulations...However, Fred Olsen has not said whether this former ferry will be sold or scrapped...

So who would buy a non-SOLAS 2010 compliant ship and why?

Quick we had all better book the QE2 and cruises on this list of ships too!

(Anyway the Black Prince is very outdated in terms of accomodation, her time has nearly come. Some of the other ships on the list are also past their sell-by date, even if they do look 'cute').

[ 06-25-2007: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Galaxy
First Class Passenger
Member # 5160

posted 06-25-2007 04:55 PM      Profile for Galaxy   Author's Homepage   Email Galaxy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello everyone!

That i have read is that Classic International Cruises are going to upgrad their ships so they surwive 2010 SOLAS...2 ships are ready and they last two are upgrade soon


Posts: 591 | From: Norway | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 06-25-2007 05:54 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, I too have read that CIC will have spent quite a few £/$m already in preparing their fleet with the rest of the work being completed before Oct 2010. That was good news.

Malcolm I believe if a vessel is purchased for private use only then such things do not matter. Perhaps someone would like BP as a private yacht I cannot imagine that! But who knows; hotel/restaurant... hmm, she is not a 'pretty' vessel, so I doubt that appeals either. Perhaps a further accommodation vessel for the UAE construction workers is required? Other than that I guess Alang/Chittagong/Gandani it is. Sad, but she has had a good innings and time is up even if SOLAS didn't exist.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-25-2007 06:04 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A very reliable source tells me that the QE2 could have probably have 'sqeaked' (a technical term) past SOLAS 2010.
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 06-26-2007 01:01 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A friend of mine has worked on board QE2 for the last 8 years, she has consistantly refused transfer to QM2 preferring QE2, she was told last year in January that she needed to make her mind up whether she would transfer to QM2 or QV as it was likely that QE2 would be gone with 18 months, if she didn't transfer prior she would be transferred to Princess, she is still on board QE2 and will transfer to QM2 later this year, Cunard never intended to keep her until 2010. It seems that those left on board QE2 will transfer to Princess on her final voyage and be rotated back in as need requires. Mind you that already happens so it is nothing new.
Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-26-2007 03:07 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I understand that many of the QM2 crew and officers at present are from Princess.

Remember, when most big lines have a newbuild they can take 10% or so of experienced staff of each of their ships and mix them with new staff for the newbuild. RCI for example have 20+ ships to draw from.

Cunard only had one ship when the QM2 came into service, hence the staffing problems onboard initially.

By the way, is there not a QE2 (Grill?) waiter that has worked most of his career onbaord the QE2 - maybe since she was built? What a shock for him. Maybe he will retire now?

[ 06-26-2007: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 06-26-2007 11:51 AM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi All

Greek cruising companies that could be affect by the Solas 2010 regulations include Louis Cruises and Monarch Classic Cruises.

They both have many old ships and I have not heard that any of them have been updated to meet the new regulations.

Some of these ships they operate themselves but others are on charter to companies like Thompson holidays for use on UK cruising.

I have also heard that Classic International Cruises have started to update their fleet and hope to have all their ships meet the new regulations for 2010.

Neil ( Bob )


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 06-26-2007 01:59 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SOLAS confuses me...are there not recently built ships that use extensive amounts of wood in their materials? Ships like the QM2 and most of the big megaships don't have any wood in them? Will all cruise ships have to have their woods removed.
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 06-26-2007 02:09 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The amount of combustible materials found aboard modern cruise ships is indeed significantly lower than on older ships.

There are of course other issues too - requirements concerning the layout (e.g. no dead-end corridors), the stability of the ship etc.

The list is BTW incomplete - Sea Cloud is missing.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
soundsailor
First Class Passenger
Member # 4164

posted 06-26-2007 08:08 PM      Profile for soundsailor   Email soundsailor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The list is BTW incomplete - Sea Cloud is missing.[/QB][/QUOTE]
I hope that they will leave Sea Cloud alone, and failing that; Sea Cloud will hopefully fall into private hands.

Posts: 150 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 06-26-2007 09:47 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rex:
SOLAS confuses me...are there not recently built ships that use extensive amounts of wood in their materials? Ships like the QM2 and most of the big megaships don't have any wood in them? Will all cruise ships have to have their woods removed.

QM2 has some good and not so good simulated wood used in her decor. Other ships such as the newer R ships (Pacific Princess, Tahitian Princess etc.) have authentic wood veneers onboard that are SOLAS 2010 compliant.

It is ashame that most older ships that have wood paneling onboard will end up being scrapped or a lucky few may be rebuilt/modified. I can understand the 'dead-end' corridors as that would be a very expensive modification but a modern fire sprinkler system will take care of most fires onboard a cruise ship. Interesting that the largest recent fire onboard a cruise ship was on the SOLAS 2010 certified Star Princess (a new ship) and not some wood veneer filled older ship. The plastics used onboard caused much of the smoke damage and dangerous fumes.


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joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 06-26-2007 11:15 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rex:
SOLAS confuses me...are there not recently built ships that use extensive amounts of wood in their materials? Ships like the QM2 and most of the big megaships don't have any wood in them? Will all cruise ships have to have their woods removed.

Wood is still allowed as long as it is backed by a material that is sufficiently fire retardant. For more about the issue check out our SOLAS 2010 thread from our Maritime Q& A page.

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Aussie1
First Class Passenger
Member # 25

posted 06-27-2007 03:44 AM      Profile for Aussie1   Email Aussie1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Will be sad to see some of these ships go BUT the article is a little misplaced on two counts,

1 SOLAS 2010 does not ban all combustable materials but places much stricter limits on how much can be used and all must be treated to be fire retardant. Also once people bring their belongings aboard flamable materials appear so you cannot eliminate flamable materials from ships entirely anyway.

2 The list of ships is simplistic in that it is simply based on the age of each ships hull. Many on the list have received complete rebuilds that have made them SOLAS 2010 compliant, for example Ocean Majesty, Calypso and Athena. These rebuilt ships are not in danger here and neither is Oceanic I believe, although her operating costs may kill her as oil prices rise. Some are doomed however, Topaz and Oceanic II being amoung them.


Posts: 493 | From: Sydney,NSW, Australia | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Cunard Fan
First Class Passenger
Member # 7530

posted 06-27-2007 01:45 PM      Profile for Cunard Fan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was wondering why SOLAS says life boats have to be on deck 3 or 4 (I forget which one)?

If a ship was sinking it seems to me that having the life boats would give you a much shorter time of getting off. Also if you were on the top deck you have to find your way farther down.

I guess its good for anyone one in the lower decks of the ship.


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Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 06-27-2007 02:11 PM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
I was wondering why SOLAS says life boats have to be on deck 3 or 4 (I forget which one)?

If a ship was sinking it seems to me that having the life boats would give you a much shorter time of getting off. Also if you were on the top deck you have to find your way farther down.

I guess its good for anyone one in the lower decks of the ship.


Fire and smoke rise to the top of any vessel--you do not want your ship's population to be migrating up there, to get into boats above the smoke and flames. Also, lowering boats is always a risky business, especially in rough weather--you do not want to have to lower people from such a high distance as the top of these gigantic new ships. Ship's muster stations are typically in public room areas, which are large enough to accommodate the population of a ship, and nowadays are located lower down anyway.

Rich


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Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-27-2007 02:19 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
yes...as cruise ship were getting bigger and bigger the lifeboats were getting further away from the sea.
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
soundsailor
First Class Passenger
Member # 4164

posted 06-27-2007 08:57 PM      Profile for soundsailor   Email soundsailor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage: yes...as cruise ship were getting bigger and bigger the lifeboats were getting further away from the sea.

Sooner or later during a sinking, lifeboats will be on deck 4 and waiting a little longer will put them on the now new deck 3.

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