Mainstream Ships:

Celebrity's Millennium, Infinity, Summit, Constellation: With their elegant decor, incredible spas, edgy art collections, and the best alternative restaurants at sea, Celebrity's four 1,950-passenger Millennium-class sisters are hard to beat. They're the classiest megaships at sea, combining old-world elegance and modern casual style, and have all the leisure, sports, and entertainment options of the other big ships in their category. Class, charm, personality -- what more could you want?

[ 11-11-2005: Message edited by: Ernst ]

[ 11-11-2005: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Malcolm, there are few, if any, of those 4 1/2* vessels in the mainstream section that I would class as such. I think those in the ultra-luxury section with the same rating may be a bit annoyed.

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Originally posted by PamM:
Malcolm, there are few, if any, of those 4 1/2* vessels in the mainstream section that I would class as such.

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The funny thing is, RCI don't rate their own product as 4.5 stars, that why they have 'Celebrity'.

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Originally posted by Coral:
http://www.frommers.com/articles/3226.html

Princess's Diamond Princess & Sapphire Princess: Diamond and Sapphire Princess are Princess's most beautiful ships to date, combining gorgeous exterior lines

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Of mid-priced lines: Celebrity and HAL have different criuse formats. Cunard needs 2 ratings: one for Grille Class and one for Britannia/Mauretania Class.

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:

What a joke. I don't think there has been a 'gorgeous' ship built in over 30 years. IMO the last gorgeous one may have been Vistafjord in 1973.

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Originally posted by usha:
Malcolm, you said the list is nonsense; why don't you think Celebrity's Millennium class ships rate 5 stars?

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Originally posted by usha:
Have you actually cruised on any of the Millennium class ships?

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Based on the recent reader reviews I would have a hard time giving them 5 stars. Remember, 5 stars should mean that everything was perfect. If one thing is wrong you can't be five star. Celebrity is good but they are by no means perfect.

The whole rating game is so subjective that I would put more stock in the reviews of fellow cruisers over time than with any single publication.

Joe at TravelPage.com

[ 11-12-2005: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

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Originally posted by joe at travelpage:

The whole rating game is so subjective that I would put more stock in the reviews of fellow cruisers over time than with any single publication.

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Originally posted by Coral:
Princess's Diamond Princess & Sapphire Princess: Diamond and Sapphire Princess are Princess's most beautiful ships to date, combining gorgeous exterior lines

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:

What a joke. I don't think there has been a 'gorgeous' ship built in over 30 years. IMO the last gorgeous one may have been Vistafjord in 1973.

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In my opinion Princess's last ship that was of any interesting design and of noteworthy beauty was the ROYAL PRINCESS. I sailed in one of her CAT AB Suites in 1997. Still one of my favorite ships of all time.

I am also very glad to see this from Frommer's 5-Star Ships for 2006, another vessel I have had the pleasure to have sailed in (to Alaska):

SMALL SHIPS

Cruise West's Spirit of Oceanus: The 114-passenger Spirit of Oceanus is an exception to the rule that with small-ship lines, it's all about the destination, not the vessel. Here, you get quality on both counts. Built in 1991 for now-defunct Renaissance Cruises, Oceanus feels more like a private yacht than an expedition vessel. Her huge cabins are the largest in the small-ship world, paneled in glossy wood studded with gleaming brasswork, a motif that continues out in the public corridors. She's got more amenities than almost any other small ship (including large public rooms, a top-deck buffet, a small gym, an elevator, and a hot tub) and the fact that she's built for open-sea rather than coastal cruising allows her to sail really adventurous and exploratory itineraries, notably to the Russian far east and Japan.

[ 11-13-2005: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]

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Originally posted by usha:
Have you actually cruised on any of the Millennium class ships?

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No, I've cruised on Mercury. I'm not saying that Celebrity are not VERY good. However, in my opinion a five star experience would have to be on a more intimate ship where I'm not one of 2000+ plus passengers.

I do not think the finest food and service can be provided in a dining room which has 1000 guests. For example the food would be pre-plated and much of it prepared in advance.

Celebrity’s slightly smaller fleet of ships (Pre the Millennium class) used to generally get consistently higher reviews than they do now on occasions. Some people feel that when RCI purchased Celebrity and they introduced the 90,000 ton Millennium class (based on RCI's ‘Radiance’ hull) the Celebrity standard dropped a little as the passenger capacity of the vessels went up. They are trying to provide high quality on a mass market scale. Many ship nuts also regard the Millennium Class as rather ugly, not that that affects star ratings.

Of course terms like five star and four are very subjective. Although the term’ five star’ normally means the best, in the absence of a six star grade. If Celebrity are five star, what are 'Silversea' for example, who are universally regarded ultra-luxury. How can RCI mass market 'Voyager' operation only be 0.5 of a star less than Celebrity? I've cruise RCI them and although they have great ships are good value for money, they are not 4.5 star in my or anyone else’s opinion. If Celebrity are five star what is the QM2’s grill class?

Sorry but the grading still don't not make sense to me.

[ 11-13-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
However, in my opinion a five star experience would have to be on a more intimate ship where I'm not one of 2000+ plus passengers.

I do not think the finest food and service can be provided in a dining room which has 1000 guests. For example the food would be pre-plated and much of it prepared in advance.

Of course terms like five star are subjective.

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Hi Malcolm,

I remember as a Travel Agent that the Star-Ratings applied to cruise ships were based off of certain specific criteria as opposed to reviews or opinions.

In the Frommers report they listed these criteria:

1. Cabin comfort and amenities
2. Ship cleanliness and maintenance
3. Public comfort/space
4. Decor
5. Dining options
6. Gym, spa and sports facilities
7. Children's facilities
8. "Enjoyment factor," that nebulous feeling that just makes a ship fun to sail

We use to tell clients that the 'passenger per-square foot ratio' also had a lot to do with it.

Agreed. All star ratings should be based on a very specific set of criteria. Of course these are very subjective too,parlicularly 'Frommers' 'Enjoyment factor'. How silly! How on earth do you measure and compare 'enjoyment'. Is a Saga cruise (fifty years plus and child free) more enjoyable than 'Carnival'? Is Celebrity more enjoyable than Cunard? It depends who you are and what you want from your cruise.

One of my best cruises was on a very old ship, with many small outdated cabins, few balconies, limited and outdated public facilities and mediocre food and service. It was the SS Norway.

Personally I think the decor, feel and the ships external appearance of the ship are important to my cruise experience, but I would not attempt to measure or qualtify these factors. I accept that many people do not care what the ship looks like externally.

The Deutschland which is regarded as five star ship by many (not Berlitz becuse of his criteria) does not have balconies or a jogging track. Does that automatically make it less than five star - it obviously does for 'Frommer' and 'Berlitz'

We use to tell clients that the 'passenger per-square foot ratio' also had a lot to do with it.

It's a useful guide but not the end of the story. Big Atriums can distort the figures. The Voyager class is pretty spacious on paper, but once onboard there are people everywhere! Ship design and layout plays a big part as Ernie often says.

Celebrity ships are pretty spacious, but there are better, smaller more intimate 'exclusive' vessel out there who would get my five stars.

[ 11-13-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by PamM:
There's therefore a whole section of points lost to the luxury vessels who do not cater for children and have no facilities...Pam

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malcolm at Cruisepage: Of course these are very subjective too,parlicularly 'Frommers' 'Enjoyment factor'.[QUOTE]

I think that is why that criteria is at the bottom, and may not hold as much weight or hardly any at all as the other 6 on the list, which I am sure hold different percentages or levels of point value given to them in accounting for the total points...

[ 11-13-2005: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:

I think that is why that criteria is at the bottom, and may not hold as much weight or hardly any at all as the other 6 on the list...

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

If you want to take your kids cruising or are looking for a 'child-free' cruise it would be number one criteria!

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I definitely see your point. Seems like there should be another FROMMERS 6-Star listing for Family Friendly ships?

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
[QB]

No, I've cruised on Mercury.

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This reminds me of a Bob Dylan interview I read about 10 years ago. It cracks me up to this day. The interviewer asked Mr. Dylan if he'd ever met Michael Jackson.

Mr. Dylan answered: "No, but I've met Martha and the Vandellas."

Not to be argumentative, but Mercury didn't get 5 stars; Millennium, Infinity, Summit and Constellation did.

I understand that "small and intimate" rates highly with you, and I can certainly understand that bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. Conversely, I would interject that being large shouldn't necessarily eliminate a ship from the running.