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quote:Originally posted by Noordam:I just heard a very good rumor that the Queen Victoria currently slated to join CUNARD and the newbuild after the Emerald Princess slated for P&O (possibly as Canberra) will shift places. With the Queen Victoria joining P&O Cruises and the would be Canberra going to Princess.... Leaving Cunard w/out another ship!
1) Thank God the "Grand-class version CANBERRA" will not happen....
2)Maybe this Vista-class ship will become the *new* CANBERRA? -Which I don't mind as much...
3) Maybe the QE2 will last until 2010!
The thought even made me queasy.
quote:Originally posted by jsea:For a second there I thought you were suggesting that a Grand Class vessel would be masquerading around in Cunard colors... The thought even made me queasy.
quote:Originally posted by Noordam:I just heard a very good rumor...
What exactly is a very good rumour? Is it one that is from a reliable source? Or is it simply one that is enjoyable to ponder and spread?
Brian
quote:Noordam wrote:With the Queen Victoria joining P&O Cruises and the would be Canberra going to Princess.... Leaving Cunard w/out another ship!
This would probably mean that the hull being built currently (the bow section) will be part of a similar ship to ARCADIA. Where does that leave QE2? Does she continue on for several more years? I doubt this rumour is for real. Noordam, as Brian asked, is it a reliable source? I can make enquiries.
******
Cheers
This will happen. Queen Mary 2 will go to Carnival and will renamed Carnival Queen. Carnival Destiny will go to Cunard renamed Queen Destiny. The QE2 will go to P&O Australia and renamed Elizabeth Sky. Thene Oriana Removed to HAL and renamed Rotterdam 7 thene the Rotterdam 6 would go to Costa as there Costa Hollanda. The Grand Princess will go to Cunard and reneamed in Queen Victoria. Oh the Costa Europa will on here turn go to Princess as Confusion Princess.
Let's wait and see.
Greetings Ben.
[ 09-16-2005: Message edited by: Maasdam ]
quote:Originally posted by Maasdam:Oh boy here we go again. Fooks Kalm down. It's only a rumour. Nothing more.
That's true. 95% of rumours are untrue. The other 5% are usually damn lies.
I no longer care who gets the next 'vista class', after all they are all the same - mediocre, or so I'm told. I don't care about who gets a 'grand class', the only impressive thing about them is their size.
I would care if some original ship designs were created!
Wow that sounds great............maybe old but at least classy
One is a luxury ship, other mass market. The only way to tell the difference was the activities and the passengers on board.
Cunard is upper middle class sprinkled with academic Bohemians, and gay people. NCL was Middle America clad with polyester and girls who comb their hair in rearview mirrors and boys try to look so tough.
The hardware is nearly indentical.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:I no longer care which ship goes where. I no longer care who gets the next 'vista class', after all they are all the same - mediocre, or so I'm told. I don't care about who gets a 'grand class', the only impressive thing about them is their size.I would care if some original ship designs were created!
quote:Originally posted by desirod7:The hardware is nearly indentical.
And this is the problem - there is not only "no" difference in the hardware (beside cabin size etc.) between a very, very expensive "luxury ship" and a mass market ship - actually some of the cheap ships even have more elegant public rooms than some luxury ships. Sooner or later "they" have to come up with something.
However, I believe a range of designers worked on QM2, different ones for different room. So the overall product is unique. However, you are very right it is certainly the QM2’s high-brow entertainment and activities which separate her from the ‘Belly Flop’ and ‘Mr & Mrs’ crowd.
The activities ran in line too. We had a Maritime Historian aboard N Dawn giving daily lectures etc, and there were other lectures. N Dawn does not have these on her cruises and I understand the OD programmes on QM2 are reduced on her cruises. It's not the same when many pax are not aboard during the day.
The hardware of the cabins are sort of similar, but that's where it ends imo. Many ships have similar points, there is only so much variation possible, with all the material rules & regs these days. It did not cross my mind that anything else looked the same.
Pam
You are 100% right. Crossers and cruisers are different breeds regardless of ship.
Many corroborate the SSNorway crossings were very different than the Carribean bus tour. The crossings were close to a QE2 crossing in ambience.
Cunard 'dumbs down" for the cruises.
I could definitely see the NCL Dawn, Radiance class, Grand class ships running a 50 pass/ton ratio, upscale activities, no announcements, better cuisine, and it would be a first class luxury experience.
The LoveBoat had very crude interior details and decor. The fine service and sense of intimacy made it a first class experience.
My next cruise in November is a repo. If it is what I think it is that will be my future cruise venue. Limited finances and time off requires a careful choice of vacation.
quote:Originally posted by PamM:The passengers aboard my N Dawn & QM2 transats were more or less the same. I think you have to compare like for like. Pax on cruises ex NYC on N Dawn are not going to be the same people taking a transat, be it aboard N Dawn or QM2.The activities ran in line too. We had a Maritime Historian aboard N Dawn giving daily lectures etc, and there were other lectures. N Dawn does not have these on her cruises and I understand the OD programmes on QM2 are reduced on her cruises. It's not the same when many pax are not aboard during the day. The hardware of the cabins are sort of similar, but that's where it ends imo. Many ships have similar points, there is only so much variation possible, with all the material rules & regs these days. It did not cross my mind that anything else looked the same.Pam
[ 09-16-2005: Message edited by: desirod7 ]
quote: Originally posted by Malcolm:I would care if some original ship designs were created!
While I wholeheartedly agree, that would imply RISK! When one company manages to demonstrate to all its competitors that a certain formula always works, why should anyone risk anything in straying from the formula? Do keep in mind that, unfortunately, "the masses" don't care what it looks like (well, so long as it doesn't resemble a supertanker), and since the bulk of the profit comes from "the masses," "the masses" dictate design, which in this case runs along the lines of a floating brick. It's a shame WF Gibbs is gone.
quote:Originally posted by BigUFan:While I wholeheartedly agree, that would imply RISK!
I take yor point, but 'innovation' involves risk. The conversion of the SS France to the SS Norway was a risk. The building of the QE2, when ocean travel was dieing, was a risk. The QM2 was a risk etc. etc.
The way ships are ordered from the yards may explain a few things:
When a company approaches a yard with the intention of ordering a ship, they will spend some time with them arguing and haggling over costs. If they are ordering a copy of a previous ship, it is simply an argument about price and delivery timeline. (this is obviously simplified but bear with me).
When they are ordering a new design, however, the process is different: A bidding process may go to a number of yards. The yards will be given three main things - The size (number of beds), the reference standard for outfitting and the reference standard for technical. For example a 2400 bed ship referenced to HAL's Rotterdam 6 for outfitting and Celebrity's Millenium for Technical reference. The yard then knows how to price the ship. They will survey the reference ships if they did not build them themselves. That way they can give a price tailored to what the owner needs. It then becomes the build teams responsibility to ensure that the standards are achieved, for example the yard might want to paint a wall and the owners team will argue that the standard would dictate a vinyl wallcovering, and so it goes.
This is where an experienced interior architect or designer, working for the owners are invaluable as they know the prices of various materials and will always endeavour to ensure the reference standards are exceeded. Its the yards job to do the opposite - a fascinating process to be involved with.
quote:Originally posted by Gerry:Its the yards job to do the opposite - a fascinating process to be involved with.
It sounds like a bloody nightmare!
Some cruise ships interiors (Golden Princess for example) look like they are made up of bits of every other newbuild. However, the QM2 must have been quite a challenge, as interiors are not the norm. Many of the public rooms are rather uniquie, I can imagine many arguemnts about cost and quality of materials.
quote: Originally posted by MalcolmI take yor point, but 'innovation' involves risk. The conversion of the SS France to the SS Norway was a risk. The building of the QE2, when ocean travel was dieing, was a risk. The QM2 was a risk etc. etc.
Agreed on this point as well, however, recall that at the time the first floating brick was launched, it was considered innovative. Unattractive, but innovative. Now anything less is apparently suicidal. Risk is manageable if it's calculated. Aesthetically appealing ships not on the scale of QM2 are apparently too big of a risk.
Then again, there are a few entrepreneurs out there willing to take the risk of operating in a niche market, e.g., Star Clippers, an example of a guy who had the dream to recreate the romance of sailing aboard a clipper ship. I had often wondered why it is that such a venture succeeds, while a line that might attempt to build a vessel similar (at least on the exterior) to those of the transatlantic golden age would not, but after a number of discussions with some folks more in the know about such things, we determined that those types of ventures don't work out due in part to the financial burden associated with designing a vessel with sheer and camber. The other component of that was there needs to be a sound engineering reason to have multiple funnels on a ship, and nobody could come up with one, hence even QM2 only has one. With a sailing ship, the more masts, the better, and there's no reason why a sailing ship can't be built. Wind isn't going to go away as a form of propulsion any time soon.
Still, it's kind of a shame to resign oneself to thinking that, in general, cruise ship exterior aesthetics are probably not going to improve.
[ 09-16-2005: Message edited by: BigUFan ]
We all laughed at the Easycruise idea initially. I think it has quickly become clear that it does fill a gap in the market. Stelios probably regards it as no risk at all. He has the cheapest product, it is bound to sell.
So if the 'new Canberra' is another Vista, which will it be cloning the way Arcadia cloned Oosterdam?
Dream on!
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