I have bought every edition of the Berlitz Guide to Cruises for the last ten years, because I love ships and I love comparing how they have done over the years, climbing and falling in the ratings.

However, just recently I have started to have severe problems with the ratings as I cannot understand why so many ships are lumped together, how exactly the ratings are arrived at and why there are so many factual errors in the book.

First of all, where does the allocation of points come from? “The Ship” gets the lion’s share of the votes with food and entertainment (key components of a cruise for most cruisers I would guess) being relegated to minor roles. Oddly, Windstar and Sea Dream ships receive no points for entertainment which considerably reduces their overall score and allows Europa to retain top spot: though as both companies stress the fact that they do not offer organised entertainment (and are delightful for that reason) this seems to be ludicrous.

Turning to factual errors, let me just look at LIRICA’s entry (only because she is the ship I most recently sailed on).

quote:

---

mec1 wrote:
9. La Pergola is not “the most formal restaurant….assigned to passengers occupying suites”. It is a delightful indoor/outdoor adjunct to the buffet.

---

You are correct Mike. La Pergola restaurant on the ex-European Vision, now MSC Armonia, was assigned to suite passengers. I can attest to that.

******

If this example of Berlitz's "information" is par for the course, then the whole book is only fit for the bin. Is the technical information correct? Or should that be taken with a large pinch of salt too? Bummer, I will just have to go out and buy an updated copy.

It just proves the grouping together of similar ships cannot be done. La Pergola on Lirica is as mec1 described. La Pergola on Armonia is the equivalent of L?Ippocampo on Lirica, and not assigned to suite pax only. Info, as Bulbousbow commented, transcribed from Festival days. The 2 restaurants have very different atmospheres, people often specifically request one or the other, but neither is obviously the best.

Items 7,8, & 9 are nonsense, inexcusable errors which one does not even have to board the ship to determine. Item 1 should have been amended by now, unless the book actually went to print a year ago. Item 2 is not true.. any congestion aboard is in the pub purely when the theatre empties and lasts for all of a max 10 mins. Item 3, I'm not sure on that. It was well used on our trip, and enjoyed, but it was half-term then. No idea where they got item 4 from, 5 I don't know about & 6, well there is a charge on Med sailings, but not in the US and from mec1's note, not on Transats either.

You are not nit picking mec1, some of these flaws are terrible and if I were MSC I'd be jumping down their throats. People take this book as the be all and end all for info about ships, which they obviously shouldn't, but with nothing else available, the average cruiser has nothing to compare to and will not realise some things are erroneous; so much so it can give a totally incorrect impression of a ship.

[ 01-21-2005: Message edited by: greybeard ]

I once or twice saw one, and having paged through it, it didn't particularly appeal to me.

It is of course a more or less completely list, but clearly american-oriented, and also with some some more narrow-mindedly opinions, which I didn't like.

Guides with star rating can be something really useful. Personally, for me the Green Michelin Guide, is my 'bible' if a want to visit some place. Allthough rather traditional, the star system there is quite good and trustful. (being French they can overrate a french thing or connection a bit, but you calculate this in, after all it was written for french customers)

The difference between Michelin (also the Red guide) and the Berlitz Cruising guide, is that the Michelin researchers are anonymous.

Its researchers visit the places, and certainly the hotels and restaurants without saying who they are, and are served as any other customer. Their anonimity is a guarded secret. A guide where the author has such a high profile this is impossible, so it can not be but there is influence in this.

Because of this, I have my reservations about this guide.

Frommers Cruise Guide has a much fairer system, ranking ships within the appropriate category - mainstream, soft adventure, luxe and so on - in a sensible attempt to compare apples with apples.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mec1:
Couldn't agree with you more about Douglas Ward - spiteful old bitch (which is, of course, why Deutschland was not included for years and remains unrated).

Frommers Cruise Guide has a much fairer system, ranking ships within the appropriate category - mainstream, soft adventure, luxe and so on - in a sensible attempt to compare apples with apples.

It's my birthday.

---

Actually, the Deutschland is in the guide this year - without a rating. His review of this grand ship is condescending, and makes several unfair comparisons to the Europa. If Peter Deilmann were alive, I doubt if that would have happened.

Pete Party Animal and Millicent Mainline Matron have very different cruise needs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rex:

Actually, the Deutschland is in the guide this year - without a rating. His review of this grand ship is condescending, and makes several unfair comparisons to the Europa. If Peter Deilmann were alive, I doubt if that would have happened.

And I do have an old Frommers Guide and yes, their reviews seem fairer.

---

quote:

---

Pete Party Animal and Millicent Mainline Matron have very different cruise needs.

---

Agreed absolutely. But I found comments like (in the Berlitz Guide) "Oriana is best suited to tabloid-reading adults..." patronising - it came across as disguised snobbishness.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Burke:
But I found comments like (in the Berlitz Guide) "Oriana is best suited to tabloid-reading adults..." patronising.

---

Yes a sweeping generalisation, but I wonder how many 'Sun' Readers' book her? I prefer the term for P&O guests 'Socks & Sandals Brigade’!

As for Easycruise, he may well be proved right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by mec1:
BERLITZ AND OTHER RATINGS

I have bought every edition of the Berlitz Guide to Cruises for the last ten years, because I love ships and I love comparing how they have done over the years, climbing and falling in the ratings.

However, just recently I have started to have severe problems with the ratings as I cannot understand why so many ships are lumped together, how exactly the ratings are arrived at and why there are so many factual errors in the book.

First of all, where does the allocation of points come from? “The Ship” gets the lion’s share of the votes with food and entertainment (key components of a cruise for most cruisers I would guess) being relegated to minor roles. Oddly, Windstar and Sea Dream ships receive no points for entertainment which considerably reduces their overall score and allows Europa to retain top spot: though as both companies stress the fact that they do not offer organised entertainment (and are delightful for that reason) this seems to be ludicrous.......

I am sorry if this seems nitpicking but given that Douglas Ward has seen fit to set himself up as the Dalai Lama of cruise reviewers and given too that many people who know nothing about ships look to him for expert advice the ratings system and the information he provides both seem to me to be questionable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mec1:

I sailed only once on Royal Viking Sun - an inaugural two night preview following her conversion into Seabourn Sun.........

On a slightly different note though, having sailed on all the premium cruise lines I must admit that for some reason Seabourn is my least favourite - I find it a bit starchy and contrived compared with Radisson, Seadream and Silversea.

---

I would like to hear mec1's Reviews / Ratings on all the premium cruise lines ships.

[ 06-21-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

Happy Birthday Mike!

I love acerbity and you are the best.

Regards,

quote:

---

Actually, the Deutschland is in the guide this year - without a rating. His review of this grand ship is condescending, and makes several unfair comparisons to the Europa. If Peter Deilmann were alive, I doubt if that would have happened.

---

according to Ward , in the 2003 adition of Berlitz Guide , Deutschland review or rating not appear in the book cause Peter Deilmann Cruises requested not to publish it . Ward mentioned this in connection to the fact that Europa is better ship thant Deutschland (if Peter Deliman didnt wont the review to be publish , so there must be a reason for this)
Ward wrote:
"Food creativity variety and presentation and service aboard Europa are far superior to Deutschland . vibration is non existent aboard europa , while it is still quite evident aboard deutschland , according to passengers . note that there is no entry for Deutschland in this book , at the owner's request "

It went to court in Germany and the review was banned from being published in the German Berlitz Guide at the time. Quite how one can write a review for such a one off ship, without having even seen her is unbelievable.

Pam is of course correct. But it was even worse for Douglas Ward: At the time Deilmann went to court and won, there was a German edition of the Berlitz guide. As a result of the court ruling, the whole German edition was sacked and destroyed. There has never been a German edition again since then.

Actually it seems to be common that Douglas rates ships even though he was never onboard. Only recently when I was on the "Mona Lisa", I had a nice coversation with the owner of her operator, Holiday Kreuzfahrten. "Mona Lisa" has received a lower rating than her previous incarnation "Victoria", even though it is no secret that the ship is in a much better shape than in her last P&O years, and the product (including food, service and entertainment) is certainly much better than three stars. Of course, Douglas was not onboard since "Victoria" became "Mona Lisa".

The same applies to the new "Albatros" and "Costa Marina", where he also gave (and adjusted) ratings without seeing the ships.

Mind you, I have met Douglas Ward on several accasions, and I have always enjoyed his company. However, his working methods and ratings I often do not understand.

Best,

quote:

---

Originally posted by PamM:
I believe Deilmann was not happy with Ward's review of Deutschland, only giving her a 4+* rating, because of the comments as above re vibration, service etc & also no jogging track and no balconies. All this without having even stepped aboard the ship!

Pam

---

Deutchland has two cabins with veranda.(one owner's suite and one Executive suite)

[ 06-21-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

---

The practice of rating ships without going aboard is under no circumstances acceptable for a professional guide.

---

i think that is unfair to write a review about ship without even step aboard her but do note :
Berlitz guide contain a self review paper call it : "feedback" . maybe by those reviews (about ships , not about the book) Ward can get "his" opinion about some ships
another point is that there are , as you know some identical ships ,like in the case of Costa Marina /Allegra so the review can somwhat refer to both ships .

2.

quote:

---

In the 2003 edition it states that QE2's Queens Grill is better then QM2's but then gived QM2's a higher rating for food and service.... bit of a stuff up here?

---

Chris , you probably mean 2004 or 2005 edition , cause Berlitz didnt rate the QM2 in 2003 ("NYR")