It is all but official. Along with the 85,000-ton Queen Victoria, due out in January 2007, Cunard will most likely give birth to yet another liner. Carnival Corporation, the ever-rich, ever-productive parent, will almost certainly build two 180,000-ton ultra-cruise liners, one for Cunard for 2008 and the other for Princess. (As of December, of course, the two legendary British passenger lines will merge their operations out of Santa Clarita, California.) The 5,000-berth ships, measuring over 1,200 feet in length, will be constructed by Fincantieri at their Monfalcone yard in northeastern Italy. Both ships will break all records for passenger ships including being the first liners to cost $1 billion each.

We will see...

still any new cunarder is good news, I suppose.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Cunard:
I spoke to Bill Miller aboard QM2 and he did not mention this as being fact - but just said there could be bigger one day. Who knows. QM2 is quite big enough I think.

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Well today he is saying it is "all but official". Anyway, I think it's stupid. TOO FRICKEN BIG! Stop the pissing contest between Arison and Fain NOW!

As far as the rivalry between RCI and CCL is concerned, it's no different than the competition between the British, French, and Germans pre and post WW1 ... they were all out to oust the other guy. It's just that, today, it's on a much larger scale. Does it make sense? Maybe not but, it IS exciting ... especially for us ship buffs.

So now we have the possibility of a 180,000 gt cruise ship for Princess and Cunard. I stress the words "cruise ship". This will certainly be NO liner like QM2. There is no need for Princess to have a "liner", and no doubt these two ships will be all but identical in design, except for some decor changes and the logo on the stack.

How long before Carnival Cruise Lines also gets the same design? It's my understanding a 180,000 gt ship was being developed for Carnival Cruise Lines, but maybe Carnival Corp. decided that Princess and Cunard could make better use of the tonnage first? Maybe this will be the next "Vista Class" ..... something that fits all brands but in the 180,000 gt range. If this all happens, you could essentially sail on the same ship design for Cunard, Princess, and Carnival. Then again, how is that really any different than what we have today?

There is also the possibility that there are two 180,000 gt designs. One for Carnival and one for Princess/Cunard. Somehow I doubt it though.

I'm NOT impressed by the possibilities right now.

Ernie

[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: eroller ]

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Originally posted by Chris Cunard:
I spoke to Bill Miller aboard QM2 and he did not mention this as being fact - but just said there could be bigger one day. Who knows. QM2 is quite big enough I think.

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A bit off topic but what's the deal with Bill Miller and QM2? Has he decided to live onboard permanently? He seems to be on every voyage. When will he find time to crank out another picture book?

Russ, maybe this is chance for you to publish the first in a series of LinerGuy books...

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Originally posted by linerguy:
My concern is if Carnival Corp. builds two identical 180,000-tonners; one for Cunard and one for Princess, it would certainly take away from the "uniqueness" QM2 currently enjoys.

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Russ,
I don't think this perspective new "cruise ship" will have any likeness to QM2. I believe QM2 will remain unique and continue to be the only new "liner". There is no need for Princess Cruises to have a true "liner". I also believe this 180,000 gt ship is the same that was being developed for Carnival Cruise Lines, but it was decided to give one to Princess and Cunard first. Carnival Cruise Lines will probably eventually get one too. At least that is my guess.

quote:

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Originally posted by CGT:
... the ever-rich, ever-productive parent, will almost certainly build two 180,000-ton ultra-cruise liners, one for Cunard for 2008 and the other for Princess.

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Personally I don’t believe it.

I would image Carnival are still evaluating the wisdom of building the QM2 for Cunard. There must still be unanswered questions on how successful she really is?

For example; are Canard regulars happy to cruise on a ship that big? I’ve certainly met some that are and some that are not. Can they really maintain the Cunard standards and ethos on a ship that big? I’ve certainly met some passengers who think not. Surely it will take several years to determine how profitable the QM2 ireally is?

If they did build a 180,000 ton ship for one of their brands, I can’t imagine them building a second for another brand so quickly. They would eclipse the achievement and put the brands in competition with each other.

I didn't really express myself correctly. I'm sure QM2 will remain a "one off"; my concern is that the two new 180,000-tonners will be, as you say, identical "cruise ships" with only the division and decor being different. And this, IMO, is the problem. QM2 is a liner and is unique. She is a ship of superlatives; one that, by all past historical predictions, shouldn't even be here ... but here she is and here she'll stay. The only ship Cunard should build bigger than QM2 is a ship that can surpass QM2 on all fronts. The idea of a (typical) Princess-designed ship sporting Cunard colors makes me gag.

Joe:

I'm not sure what's up with Miller and his second residency set up on board QM2. All three of his lectures were standing room only so, there is an appeal there. I'm sure he and Cunard have struck a deal that benefits both parties. As far as LinerGuy books are concerned, the idea has more than crossed my mind. Perhaps a co-author can step forward to help out. Any takers?

quote:

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Originally posted by linerguy:
Ernie:

I didn't really express myself correctly. I'm sure QM2 will remain a "one off"; my concern is that the two new 180,000-tonners will be, as you say, identical "cruise ships" with only the division and decor being different. And this, IMO, is the problem. QM2 is a liner and is unique. She is a ship of superlatives; one that, by all past historical predictions, shouldn't even be here ... but here she is and here she'll stay. The only ship Cunard should build bigger than QM2 is a ship that can surpass QM2 on all fronts. The idea of a (typical) Princess-designed ship sporting Cunard colors makes me gag.

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Agreed, 100%!!! I can only hope it's all rumor and not reality, but somehow these things have a way of coming true. Lately it seems Carnival is not thinking through some of their decisions. They are making rash business decisions that may be appealing in the short term, but jeopardize the long-term integrity of the individual brands they spent so much time and money to obtain.

I was always against the Princess/Carnival merger, and if these expansion plans prove true then my gut reaction was right all along. Carnival Corp. has become too big, and there is nothing that can be done about it now. The possible result could be many cruise brands which we have loved and admired over the years becoming nothing more than colors and logos with no true substance to differentiate them. If that becomes the case, I would almost have rather seen them become extinct.

I have a feeling the next announcement will be a Princess-Cunard merger under one brand name...

Micky Arison, if you are reading this, YOU ARE CRAZY and STUPID!!!!

[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

Queen KONG! Love it!

As if things aren't bad enough with Cunard, P&O, and Swan-Hellenic overlapping one another in the U.K.; Carnival, Costa, and Princess overlapping in NA mass-market, and Cunard and Holland America overlapping in NA premium market; now all brands will have the exact same ships and onboard product!

I hold out hope that the 5,000 passenger capacity is only for the Princess version of the design and the Cunard one will be lower-density. Also, it really wouldn't be all that bad if the ships were given totally different superstructure designs on the same hull and mechanicals a la Brilliance/Millennium class. But, the Spirit/Vista ships indicate that Carnival does not think that way.

This many bad ideas in such a short period of time- Carnival is really off their game.

Onno, just not enough balconies!

[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

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Originally posted by Keitaro:
Hmm, not bad!

Onno, just not enough balconies!

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Good observation! Unless every inch of outer hull space is not littered with balconies, cruise lines have no interest in the design.

Besides, Onno's design is far too imaginative. We know it can't be something Carnival is considering.

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Originally posted by Keitaro:
just not enough balconies!

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Originally posted by Jekyll:
And 2 life boats (tenders) for 5000 - people - how big are they??????

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I count 18. Nine on each side.

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Originally posted by Brian_O:
What's Mickey been smoking lately? It seems to have fried his brain.

Queen KONG! Love it!

Brian

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