https://survey.vt.edu/survey/entry.jsp?id=1068495612655

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Originally posted by Andrew Coggins Jr:
I'm writing a Ph.D. Dissertation on "What makes a passenger ship a legend." If you have an opinion on that and some favorite ships"

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How about a lot of hype???

We are constantly being told that the QM2 is already a legend. Well, so far she is only the biggest ship in the world. Other ships were the biggest ship in the world before she came. QM2 so far seems to suffer from chronic bad service (Cunard even had to create a"White Star Academy" to retrain their crew), she didn't score too well when she was inspected by US Public Health and her crew seem to be resigning by the dozen. Apart from all the hype created by Carnival around their mega baby, I really can't see what makes her a legend.

[ 07-24-2004: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

Andrew, once your work is finished it would be nice to know which ships made up the top ten.

[ 07-24-2004: Message edited by: feargus ]

I see from your profile that you also like trains. Cambodge and I also.

20th CENTURY LIMITED? SUPER CHIEF?

I'm still waiting for Joe to start Rail Talk, like he said he would...

[ 07-24-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

Best regards,

quote:

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Originally posted by Andrew Coggins Jr:
I'm writing a Ph.D. Dissertation on "What makes a passenger ship a legend."

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Wow…you have picked an incredibly subjective topic for you dissertation. Even the term 'Legendary' has many definitions and interpretations.

You have also used the term 'cruise ship' and here we meet a nother question of definition. Few people would name any 'cruise ships' as being 'Legendary', they would pick 'Ocean Liners' not the same thing at all!

What gives anything ‘Legendary’ status, one could ask, let alone ships? A pure list of ships gained via a survey, does of course not answer the question. To attempt to answer the question with any success, you dissertation is unlikely to be about ships at all, the much wider issues of Sociology, such as ‘Culture’ and ‘Media Representations’.

Are you purely interested in the opinions of those interested or involved in shipping, as your survey suggest this with its limited list of Professions?

If 'Legendary means 'well-known' (one of it's definitions) few ships do ever achieve ‘legendary’ status in the mass culture – period. We can probably boil it down to the ‘Titanic’ and the ‘QE2’, both are 'Ocean Liners', rather than just passenger or cruise ships.

Of course it all depends who you ask. Ask a bunch of ‘Ocean Liner enthusiasts and you will get ship names like ‘Normandie’ and ‘SS United States’. Ask the general public about these ships and they might well of never have heard of them!

The QM2 (the only new Ocean Liner) is being marketed as a new ‘classic’. She has already achieved much media attention and has probably entered into popular culture. However, I’m not sure how you will determine when a ship can be termed as a ‘legendary’? Can a relatively new ship be a ‘legend’? If not, how old must it be? Once again it’s all very subjective indeed.

The answers you get will also depend on various geographical factors, possibly race, gender, education, occupation and class. A doctor might have a different opinion to a road sweeper. I notice that your survey asks how many cruises the person filling in the form has been on? Do you think this is a particularly relevant factor to there categorisation of ‘legendary’ shi’?

Many other factors, such as living in a seafaring country or location, or having a ‘history’ qualification may also be as relevant? Ask someone who lives in Southampton about Legendary ships, you probably get a very different answers to someone who lives in Nepal. That of course does not make their answers wrong, it is their 'perception' - so we are back to the 'subjective' again.

Good luck, you really have your work cut-out!

The Legendary ‘Malcolm’

[ 07-25-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Now I just noticed you named the topic: “looking for legendary cruise ships”, while you also mentioned legendary passenger ships. Which one are you looking for because both are very different and I think you could be more lucky doing the survey on passenger ships then on cruise ships.

Like the above cruise talkers I must agree that it is a very subjective topic. First I think today’s global world as a whole isn’t anymore interested and willing to give objects in general a legendary states. Neither are ships (again in general) considered national symbols of pride like they were in the old days the Big U, Queen Mary, France and Rotterdam V were.

Perhaps until the end of the real passenger liner service in the 60’s, ships were the modern legends like in ancient Greek stories, but I don’t think they are anymore today. So time is in important factor that decides what is a legend and what not, even though we live in a global world still culture dominates in determining legend status (I for one would be more tempted to choose a few Dutch ships then someone from the UK would). Also the legendary states in today’s world is given by the media (obviously for making money, think of Titanic movie and the QM2 hype) the general public which in most cases have no or limited knowledge of the steamer legends of old absorb only what is presented by the media and thus let the media make that choice for them.

A while ago I created the “Evolution of the Ocean Liner” Poster, to know which ships would be on it we had a little survey on Cruise Talk and the result was a very large list of ships, al deserving a spot in history, but in the end a decision needed to be made. Legendary states also played some role in that decision as well the liner knowledge of the general public.

If you are interested the poster is available via Cruise Page by clicking on the poster picture in the left menus bar. Maybe you could use it for your presentation.

Best, Onno

[ 07-25-2004: Message edited by: Onno ]

Coincidentally, even before this post, I was thinking if there are already "classic" cruise ship"s, from the last 20-25 years ?

Let alone "legendary" - there are very few "legendary" ships, and Malcolm, i don't think QE2 is legendary, very famous, and a classic, and a well -loved and beautiful, an ocean liner - but a ship of legends ? perhaps, but only just. I think only the first Queen Mary, and perhaps Mauretania are "legendary" ships of the Cunard Line.
Legendary, could be only Great Eastern, Titanic, Queen Mary and (perhaps)Normandie, but others .... ships that captured the imagination, and have stayed in that imagination over the years ..., with myths and legends endowed - not many... Perhaps even only Titanic has a lasting place in modern day legends, in pop culture.

And an other question, classic cruise ships ? I think "Royal Princess" could be, but others, could a Carnival ship like Jubilee or Holiday, older carnival ships be called "classic" ? will there ever be a time they and their successors will be called classics ?

And Vistaclass ships, whatever the line, will they ever be admired for their "fine classic looks", as now liners of other ages, can be admired, sometimes perhaps only because they are of an older and more familiar design ? I remember thinking about "Nordic Prince"(when they were new) and similar ships as "too modern", "ugly" certainly not "real" ships, and seeing them now, they have a classic feeling about them, or is this just familiarity and the passing of the time ??

https://survey.vt.edu/survey/entry.jsp?id=1068495612655

It's a difficult topic, and I may find out that there's no answer, but it's worth trying.

Best regards,

I think you’re are doing an interesting research and even though it may be impossible to get a definition of what makes a ship a legend, there are probably other interesting findings.

A while I go I did some research for a school project of my own were I looked at the possibilities to give the history of the millions of immigrants a place in modern travelling, I think it is always important to know ones roots.

If you like to talk or discuss the subject with me via e-mail then feel free to contact me at onnoheesbeen1@hotmail.com I wont promise that I know and can answer everything about ships but we can sure talk about it.

Best, Onno