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Topic: QM2 Understaffing a permanent problem?

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-17-2004 02:45 PM

....and it has been said that there is no more room to add more staff? Carnival/Cunard seemed to plan everything else about this ship out so carefully, how could they fail so miserably when it comes to staff training and the number of staff on board?

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 03-17-2004 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CGT:
....and it has been said that there is no more room to add more staff? Carnival/Cunard seemed to plan everything else about this ship out so carefully, how could they fail so miserably when it comes to staff training and the number of staff on board?

If this is problem that can't be quickly rectified, QM2 will suffer a bad reputation before she even gets off the ground. I would say this was an area where Cunard had hoped to save some money, and it is backfiring.

No matter how beautiful the ship is, if the food, service, and entertainment are sub-par then one cruise on her would be enough for me. I'm sure most others would feel the same way.

Ernie - who loved QE2 the ship, but hasn't returned because of the below average food and service at relatively high prices.

Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-17-2004 03:20 PM

As far as entertainment goes, I've heard both good and bad, but when it has been bad, it's apparently been *very* bad. Eroller, you've worked aboard ship before, who is in charge of booking the entertainment? Entertainment is somethnig that makes no difference to me, but it is something that can *easily* be fixed. Who is responsible?

[ 03-17-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 03-17-2004 03:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CGT:
As far as entertainment goes, I've heard both good and bad, but when it has been bad, it's apparently been *very* bad. Eroller, you've worked aboard ship before, who is in charge of booking the entertainment? Entertainment is somethnig that makes no difference to me, but it is something that can *easily* be fixed. Who is responsible?

I can only speak for Princess Cruises and Carnival, but I'm sure every major line has an Entertainment Department. Princess and Carnival produce all shows in-house, although Princess did do some sub-contracting a few years back that didn't go over very well. Martin Hall is the head of Entertainment for Princess, and Roger Blum for Carnival (at least when I last checked). Basically they along with their staff decide what acts and music groups will be booked on the ships, as well as what new shows will be produced. Lecturers and specialty acts are also booked through them after auditions in most cases.

I think Cunard probably has the best entertainment when it comes to personal enrichment (well maybe Swan Hellenic is better). They have top notch lecturers and great theme cruises. They really excel in this area, but their production shows are truly amateur. Production shows may not matter much to you or I, but for many passengers they do. Of course these passengers go on QM2 expecting the best performances since QM2 is the largest and most expensive ship. Well if they are anything like what I witnessed on QE2 they will come away very disappointed.

This is one area where Cunard needs to take advantage of the relationship with sister lines Princess and Carnival to produce better shows. They could learn a lot.

BTW, the best show to this day that I have seen onboard ship was the ice skating show on VOYAGER OF THE SEAS. It was truly suburb. For regular stage shows I would say Carnival's are the most elaborate and professional.

Ernie

Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

mec1
First Class Passenger
Member # 4287

posted 03-17-2004 05:31 PM

Not quite sure what to make of Ernie's observation that the Ice show on RCI is truly suburb.

Funnily enough, the best production shows I have ever seen in 138 cruises were aboard Airtours Sun Cruises "Sunbird" (ex Song of America) their show Galleria is stunning.

Posts: 1675 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-17-2004 05:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eroller:
BTW, the best show to this day that I have seen onboard ship was the ice skating show on VOYAGER OF THE SEAS. It was truly suburb.

Well, I'm sure taken on it's own, the ice show was spectacular. However, you know I have a 'philosophical" problem (to put it delicately) with there being an ice show on a cruise ship in the first place....

[ 03-17-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-17-2004 07:56 PM

Hang on, maybe I'm getting confused, but I though that QM2 had a relatively high staff-passenger ratio? How does it compare to the Voyager class?

I've not been on QM2, but I understand in terms of entertainment that she has had some top acts onboard, so far. Of course this will not last!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 03-17-2004 08:58 PM

Cunard could always block off some lower grade cabins for crew. If the staffing problem is that bad and it is having a negative impact on customer satisfaction, it should be fixed before the travel agents start sending passenger elsewhere.

Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-18-2004 01:22 PM

Interesting, I've just checked my facts:

Queen Mary 2 Crew/Passenger ration: 2.4 (All berths)

Voyager Class Crew/Passenger ration 3.2 (All berths)

For comparison the QE2 is slightly better than QM2 at 1.8 (All berths)

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 03-18-2004 01:30 PM

Sorry to add salt and spices to the topic, but some nasty british tabloids reported 300 staff left the QM2 sometimes after she reached Fort Lauderdale?
Surely this must have been exaggerated, but it could not account for normal staff rotation as contracts are at least 6 months?
Hesitating to apply...

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-18-2004 02:45 PM

I am starting to wonder if the QV will be a greater success than QM2, because of the fact that she *is* a Vista Class ship.

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-18-2004 03:09 PM

I'm sure the QV will be a great success with the general cruising public. Us liner nuts have the QM2. That sounds like a fair deal to me?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

PAT PETERS
First Class Passenger
Member # 4563

posted 03-20-2004 10:38 PM

HAVING BEEN ONE OF THE STAFF THAT RESIGNED FROM THE QM2 AFTER THE INAUGURAL CRUISE, I CAN CONFIRM THAT IT WASNT FAR OFF 300 THAT RESIGNED. THE MORE SENIOR STAFF WHO RESIGNED, HAD PREVIOUSLY WORKED WITH CUNARD ON BOARD THE QE2.

IT IS CORRECT THAT THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ANY EXTRA STAFF ON BOARD AND SOME OF THE STAFF CABINS ARE THE SMALLEST I HAVE EVER SEEN ON ANY SHIP (ESPECIALLY THE CABINS ALLOCATEDTO THE PUBLIC ROOMS STAFF). THE SHORTAGE OF CABINS IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT CUNARD DID NOT ENVISAGE THE AMOUNT OF STAFF CANYON RANCH WOULD EMPLOY. IT IS THE FIRST SHIP I HAVE WORKED ON THAT SOME OFFICERS SHARED CABINS

AS FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT ON BOARD, THE THEATRE SHOWS ARE PERFORMED BY A COMPANY FROM NORTHAMPTON CALLED 'BELINDA KING'. WHO HAVE NEVER WORKED ON CRUISE SHIPS BEFORE. AS LIKE MOST OF THE STAFF ON THE QM2, THE ENTERTAINMENT TEAM WERE STILL WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS. THE VENUES WERE NOT COMPLETE AND ONLY 2 OF THE 4 PRODUCTION SHOWS WERE RUNNING. YES THERE WERE A FEW BIG NAME CABARET ARTISTS ON BORD, THIS WAS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LACK OF PRODUCTION SHOWS. AND YOU WILL FIND THAT NOW ALL THE CABARET SHOWS HAVE COME FROM EITHER THE QE2 OR ANOTER RIVAL CRUISE COMPANY, ALONG WITH SOME OF THE ENTERTAINMENT STAFF.
WHEN PEOPLE USE THE STAFF TO PASSENGER RATIO, THEY SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE SIZE OFF THE SHIP. EVRYTHING TAKE'S A LOT LONGER, AS EVERYTHING IS BIGGER. AND THE AMOUNT OF STAFF EMPLOYED IN AREA'S LIKE CANYON RANCH, CASINO. SHOPS AND OTHER NON HOTEL AREA'S. WHICH ARE CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN ANY OTHER SHIP I HAVE WORKED ON. MOST OF THE STAFF WHO RESIGNED HAD ALL WORKED ON CRUISE SHIP'S AND HAD CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION 'THAT FOR THEM TO WORK NORMAL CRUISE SHIP HOURS EXTRA STAFF WERE NEEDED'. AND THAT THIS WAS NOT POSSIBLE DUE TO, NO SPARE CABINS.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE QM2, I WILL BE HAPPY TO SHARE IT WITH YOU.

Posts: 37 | From: LIVERPOOL | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-20-2004 11:02 PM

Thanks. Share everything. I'm sure members here will have a lot to ask you.

Just leave the key caps off .

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 03-21-2004 08:02 AM

A VERY interesting and informative posting. I am sure this situation will not be allowed to continue.

But it does show monumental lack of planning on the part of the ';headshed" elements of Cunard. Put Canyon Ranch in a dingy and tow them behind! Who needs 'em?

Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

feargus
First Class Passenger
Member # 3982

posted 03-21-2004 08:24 AM

can't say that i am too surprised. before she even put to sea cunard were having trouble getting people to join. both myself and my better half thought it would be good to have a go with cunard, didn't even pack the suitcases, the terms and conditions offered were rubbish. they were typical carnival type contracts. this ship is supposed to be something special, therefore the crew and officers should be on someting special contracts. in my opinion it is the crew that make a ship, if the crew are paid as regular carnival anyship crew you will get a regular carnival anyship ship.
just put wings on the funnel so we can stop all this fuss.

Posts: 249 | From: Halifax,Canada / Abu Dhabi, UAE | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 03-21-2004 09:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cambodge:
Put Canyon Ranch in a dingy and tow them behind! Who needs 'em?

Seriously.

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

empressport
First Class Passenger
Member # 2511

posted 03-21-2004 01:12 PM

Welcome to Cruise Talk Pat

Do you know if any of the QM staff go back to the QE2?

Posts: 464 | From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged

PeterUK
First Class Passenger
Member # 1898

posted 03-21-2004 02:33 PM

Surely the quick fix answer is to take some of the bottom grade cabins out of passenger use and convert them to crew use. That way there are less passengers so less staff are needed and a balance can be reached. To carry on with possible poor service is not a sensible option. I had a flier the other day offering discounted prices on the transatlantic crossings. If they can't achieve the asking price in the first season there is something wrong.

Posts: 217 | From: North of England | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

PAT PETERS
First Class Passenger
Member # 4563

posted 03-21-2004 03:58 PM

HI Empressport, to my Knowledge the only crew who will return to the QE2 will be senior staff, such as the Captains, staff Captains and criuse Directors. And this will be on a rota.

As for any more QE2 moving onto the QM2, thats a none starter. As Cunard/Carnival say the QE2 staff is not the way forward. They do not want the QM2 to be influenced in anyway by the staff and practise's of the QE2, who they deem 'outdated'.

Speaking to many of the British guests on board the QM2, the said 'outdated' practise's were exactly what their expectations of the QM2 were. And suggested they would not return, if these 'outdated' practise's of Cunard did not influence the QM2.

Posts: 37 | From: LIVERPOOL | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 03-21-2004 04:00 PM

QM2 need not have staffing problems. If Cunard is paying the staff "Carnival" type wages then lower the passenger capacity and they still could make money. Like I wrote earlier, take, oh say 100-150 of the lowest grade inside cabins out of passenger service and make them into crew quarters. The QM2 really need not carry 2600 passengers, 2200 (like old QE) seems a more reasonable number for transatlantic. After all the buzz wears off, can Cunard really fill 2600 berths on a transatlantic crossing and who wants to travel on such a grand ship if the crew is miserable and overworked?? Potential crewmembers may get the word in advance and stay away or opt for QE2 if they have a chioce-which I doubt they have.

Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

PAT PETERS
First Class Passenger
Member # 4563

posted 03-21-2004 04:43 PM

Taking out lower grade cabins could be the answer, as long as they used these cabins for extra crew. But at the moment as they cant see their problem of under staffing, why look to different accommodation for existing crew.
Not having worked from carnival before, but from what i can gather. The staff are easier to replace than correcting the problem. Mainly with Eastern European's who are grateful for the employment.

Posts: 37 | From: LIVERPOOL | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

POPEYE THE CRUISER
Just Boarded
Member # 4565

posted 03-21-2004 11:51 PM

Hello everyone,i read your message board's from time to time and find it very interesting. Now I can contribute to your site, I too quit the great QM2. But before it set sail from Southampton.
Havining been in Chantiers de l'Atantique ship yard for the last two months of the build, workin 16 hour days and breaking shipyard working regulations. I was surprised that when we arrived in South and I checked my bank balance that i had not recieved any payment from Cunard. When I enquired at the crew office as to why I had not recieved any monies, they told me that it was a clerical error in Miami and would be rectified as soon as the office opened. Which would be the first week in January.
This was also the case for other people in my department. On the 10 th of Jan when I had still not recieved any monies I left the ship to return home.
I was later paid in full at the end of the month.
This was the first time this has ever happend to me while working for Cunard. I have completed a couple of contracts for Cunard but never experienced anything like the mayhem going on the QM2.
I was allocated a single cabin due to my rank, but stayed in a guest cabin until my departure (which had to give up by 12/01/04 anyway ) . I knew of the problems ahead, regarding the lack of cabins. The hotel manager was offering $500 a month for crew willing to share their single cabins. I dont know how they achieved accomadotion problems, or if they have. But the temporary fix was not to replace staff who quit.

Posts: 3 | From: SPAIN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 03-22-2004 09:11 AM

The question is how many staff did quit???
Number ranges from 300(British tabloids) to 90(conservative papers and Official Pam Conover statement).
I can't see how a luxury ship can work with an unreplaced third of its still green staff.
It seemed that from the onset, Cunard/Carnival wanted school leavers, and they would have made hell to QE2 and experienced staff.
I met the same problems when RCCL introduced the Sovereign class in the late 80's.
They seemed to deal with the Voyager-class well now.
Pity Cunard have to learn the hard way, they haven't had a big ship for so long..

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

Johan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4458

posted 03-22-2004 09:38 AM

This is quite unbelievable, 300man staff has quit after the first voyage ?!
Seems rather serious to me.
Long time yes, but they try to cash in on their tradition, and managing personnel is also part of that tradition, seems to me...
After the rumours of bad food, and now mass defection of staff, for such a megahyped ship, work has to be done..

Posts: 1895 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged

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