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Topic: Who "owns" ship designs?

Landlocked Cruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4297

posted 02-10-2004 07:31 PM

The architects? The yards? The lines? Other than names and logos, are they intellectual property at all?

If I owned a cruise line (not Cunard) and I wanted a carbon copy of, for example, Queen Mary 2, and I wanted (again for example) Kvaerner Masa to build it, what is to stop me?

[ 02-10-2004: Message edited by: Landlocked Cruiser ]

Posts: 253 | From: Wichita | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 02-10-2004 09:27 PM

Carnival's funnel and logo are trademarked and patented with Joe Farcus's name. Royal Carribean's trademark funnel mounted observation lounge is patented too.

Cunard may have it's funnel patented but I am not sure. If not they should.

Ownership of intellectual property is a complex business. Patents are easy to get around so many have "trade secrets" such as the CocaCola formula.

Ships are hard since there is never an identical copy.

I work in design and use a patent attorney from time to time and have been a witness too. Normally I sign the ownership rights to the client upon full payment. I prefer not to work on a royalty basis since there is no guarantee of income.

A patent gives one the right to sue.

[ 02-10-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 02-10-2004 09:28 PM

I know for sure that Chantier de l'Atlantique owns the basic designs for the Festival trios, MSC twins, and Celebrity's MILLY-class. It depends on the ship and cruise company. QM2 definately is owned by Carnival Corp.

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Landlocked Cruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4297

posted 02-10-2004 09:55 PM

Thanks for the answers.

desirod7, I have wonderered about the Viking Crown Lounges. Do you know for sure? In their literature, RCI claims the words Viking Crown Lounge as a service mark, although not a registered trademark like most of the ships' names. As for the design or appearance of the lounges they don't say.

How does Japan Cruise Line gets away with the lounges (if's that's what they are) on Orient Venus and Pacific Venus?

I know RCI has (sometimes) required the removal of the lounge when a ship is sold, but that could just be a provision in the sales contract and would not require trademark rights.

Posts: 253 | From: Wichita | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

rccldesign
First Class Passenger
Member # 4318

posted 02-11-2004 03:48 PM

Keitaro, are you really sure about the Chantiers owning Millennium-class's design? I don't think they've designed the ships on their own... RCCL has a dedicated department which certainly played a major role in their design process as well.

Posts: 49 | From: Paris, France | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

Cunardcoll
First Class Passenger
Member # 1226

posted 02-11-2004 04:38 PM

QM2 is not owned by Carnival corp but by Cunard Line Ltd. , that's the mother company of Cunard Cruise Line and Seabourn Cruise Line.

Jochen

Posts: 947 | From: Belgium | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

vikingcrown
First Class Passenger
Member # 3437

posted 02-11-2004 04:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cunardcoll:
QM2 is not owned by Carnival corp but by Cunard Line Ltd. , that's the mother company of Cunard Cruise Line and Seabourn Cruise Line.
Jochen

But Cunard Line Ltd. is owned by Carnival Corporation. So in essence, it is the same thing.

Posts: 341 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 02-11-2004 10:59 PM

quote:
rccldesign posted:
Keitaro, are you really sure about the Chantiers owning Millennium-class's design?

A while back I heard Chantiers was going to offer Festival/First European cruises a new class of ships based off the "Milly".

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Marlowe
First Class Passenger
Member # 1632

posted 02-12-2004 12:19 AM

My experience is that in the contract between the ship owner and the naval architect, there is language which grants all future rights for use of the plans to the ship owner although the architect will keep copies in their offices and may well refer to those plans for future designs.

If however, the plans are drawn by a shipyard's own design department on speculation for the sale of that type of ship to the industry as a whole (ie Chantier de l'Atlantique's design for the Millennium-class) then the rights to the plans remain with the yard unless they sell or otherwise transfer away those rights.

For designs which are so old that the original contracting owner's or architects are no longer in business then I would imagine that the designs would be considered as being in the public domain, but if I were going to build to old drawings I would invest in some very thorough due dilegence before spending the big bucks.

Any particular ships you thinking you'd like to see built again?

Posts: 414 | From: mt. vernon, wa, usa | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 02-12-2004 06:56 AM

i would like to see another ss america built.she would be propelled by diesel electric or
gas turbine electric making her
ms america.i believe cox and gibbs are the owners of the planns for this ship.
her size and transatlantic capabilities would be ideal for
cruising from new york to southern states in the winter and a few transatlantic in the
summer.

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

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