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Author Topic: Death Toll Rises, Lawsuit Filed
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 05-29-2003 04:46 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Death toll rises in Miami ship blast, suits filed
Reuters, 05.28.03, 12:18 PM ET

MIAMI (Reuters) - A fifth crewman died of injuries suffered in a boiler explosion aboard a cruise ship docked in Miami and an injured worker filed a $1 billion lawsuit against the ship's owner, lawyers and company officials said Wednesday.

The explosion killed four crewmen Sunday and injured 20 aboard the steam-powered SS Norway, which had just returned to Miami from a seven-day Caribbean voyage.

The ship's owner, Norwegian Cruise Line, said a fifth crewman died Tuesday but did not identify him. The four who died earlier, and several of the injured, were Filipinos.

All 2,135 passengers were safely evacuated from the ship. The National Transportation Safety Board was investigating the cause of the blast.

Attorneys for one injured crewman, Abdi Comedia, sued NCL and its parent company, Star Cruises, in a state court in Miami Tuesday, accusing them of negligence.

The blast tore apart the boiler room and spewed superheated steam, burning Comedia over much of his body, the lawsuit said. Comedia is seeking $1 billion in punitive damages and $1 million for medical bills and lost wages.

His lawsuit, filed by attorney William Huggett, said the vessel's steam boiler system was old, dangerous and improperly maintained and that the multinational crew was undertrained, overworked and unable to understand engine room bosses because they spoke different languages.

It said the owners should have known an accident was likely because the boilers' pressurized steam can reach 900 degrees Fahrenheit, and that most ships switched to safer, more reliable diesel propulsion long ago.

"The SS Norway is an ancient, dangerous vessel with a long history of safety problems, which should have been sent to the scrap yard years ago," Huggett wrote in the lawsuit.

The company denied the allegations, calling the lawsuit baseless and the attorney who filed it opportunistic and self-serving, alluding to a news conference at his client's hospital bedside.

"It is also extraordinary that Huggett, whose lawsuit displays a spectacular ignorance of the technology of ships, could imagine that he has determined the cause of the accident on board the SS Norway in less than 48 hours" when the NTSB has said its investigation may take a year, NCL said.

Reuters News Service


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-29-2003 06:02 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
It said the owners should have known an accident was likely because the boilers' pressurized steam can reach 900 degrees Fahrenheit, and that most ships switched to safer, more reliable diesel propulsion long ago.

Sheesh... Who thinks of this cr*p... As far as I know, going to diesels had nothing to do with safety and reliability, and everything to do with fuel economy!

Indeed some of the very NEWEST ships in the world have steam turbines as part of gas turbine/steam turbine co-generation plants!

quote:
"The SS Norway is an ancient, dangerous vessel with a long history of safety problems, which should have been sent to the scrap yard years ago," Huggett wrote in the lawsuit.

Oh really. If she is so "ancient" and "dangerous" how come it took so long for something to happen?

I'm sorry, but I really doubt that NORWAY was a death-trap... And I really hope that this whole thing doesn't spiral out of control. Perhaps NCL is partially at fault, but it is ridiculous to immediately attribute the accident to their negligence and the age of the ship when an investigation has barely even started!

[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 05-29-2003 06:24 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"The SS Norway is an ancient, dangerous vessel with a long history of safety problems..."
Is she really ancient? There are others much older. I believe this is just an accident and no one at NCL expected it either.

Regarding what the lawyer said, I think he barely knows about the cruise industry and cruise ships IMO.....other than NCL, Star, and "ancient" ship called NORWAY that injured his client.


Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 05-29-2003 06:26 PM      Profile for Ðraikar   Email Ðraikar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One billion for punitive damages that's funny he should be thankful he did not die. Maybe NCL is partially at fault but $1 billion in punitive damages and $1 million for medical bills / lost wages
Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Britanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 2912

posted 05-29-2003 08:47 PM      Profile for Britanis   Email Britanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
$1 billion does seem kind of high- especially since its not much of a class action, so far only two crew members have signed on. I agree that it doesn't sound as if this lawyer knows much about ships in general and propulsion/power generation systems specifically. Even the latest nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers use steam turbines, not to mention shoreside electrical plants, both of the nuclear and non-nuclear variety.

I always thought reliability and safety were supposed to be some of the BENEFITS of steam turbine drive on ships- you know, the reasons old Mr. Vlasov insisted on turbines for Fairsky. Steam is supposed to be smoother, quieter, and more reliable. Diesel burns less fuel, requires less space, and can be operated by less crew.

(Not that there's anything wrong with either system, just that each has its benefits, and if oil prices hadn't gone so out of control in the last 30 years maybe a few more steamers would have been built other than Pacific Sky.)

Does anyone have Hugget's e-mail address?


Posts: 944 | From: Philadelphia, USA- former home of International Merchantile and Marine Co. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 05-29-2003 09:41 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the steam plants are reliable. You don't hear the FAIRSKY have problems with it. I think the problem with the NORWAY's is AGE. If NCL exec. is reading this, I think a new steam plant and speed is the way to go.
Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 05-29-2003 10:24 PM      Profile for cncservo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Since the employees of the ship were at work can they sue their employer for negligence. In some states you cannot sue your employer for negligence unless it is determined there was a problem and mamagement knew of the danger and did nothing about it. Would this be in the juristriction of the State of Florida. Would the people be covered by workmans compensaton since the ship probably is not registered in the U.S. I looked for the registration on this site and could not find information on the registration.
Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 05-29-2003 10:34 PM      Profile for DAMBROSI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nothing like a rich lawyer looking to make money for himself off the poor blokes who work harder than he does. POOH BEAR on him. If they put the right system in the NORWAY, she'll be out in about 8 weeks??? Possibly?????
Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-29-2003 10:44 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cncservo:
Since the employees of the ship were at work can they sue their employer for negligence. In some states you cannot sue your employer for negligence unless it is determined there was a problem and mamagement knew of the danger and did nothing about it.

I think one primary concern is just what jurisdiction this comes under... Bahamas (flag state), Bermuda (domicile of Star Cruises), Florida (location of the ship, and of NCL's head offices), Hong Kong SAR (location of Star Cruises head offices) Philippenes (nationality of the crew member)...

It's a lot more complicated than your average industrial accident.

[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Commodore
First Class Passenger
Member # 1575

posted 05-30-2003 12:22 AM      Profile for Commodore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This lawsuit is full of it. People sue over everything. The worst is the McDonalds lawsuit. Come on people fat fried in grease has fat in it you don't need to be told that. Anyway, this lawsuit is nothing but rubbish. What history of serious problems has the Norway had?? None that were lethal from what I can recall. Diesels can be deadly too the Achille Lauro had them and burned very badly. All in all I hope that this case is thrown out.
P.S. My computer had troubles so I couldn't make many posts lately.

Posts: 1106 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 05-30-2003 04:13 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, let us remember that five people have lost their lives here!

I’ve no idea what price lives should be valued at, 1 million, 10 million, or 1 billion? They are just numbers.

The reality is widowed mothers, loss of income for life, trauma for those bereaved and children without fathers, assuming the crew were all male?

Explosions do not discriminate! There might have been more deaths. Members of the public might have died. They were obviously put at risk.

Somebody was negligent.

[ 05-30-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 05-30-2003 05:18 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Somebody was negligent.

No-one yet knows why, how, what or even where this accident happened. Accidents happen whether someone was negligent or not. Somebody may have been, somebody may not have been.
For a lawyer to have already filed a claim I think is disgusting, he has no proof of anything or even what happened, so I think it should be torn up and binned. Lawyers who act in this manner should be sued themselves.
Class action lawsuit filed by all Cruisers against lawyers claiming ridiculous sums in compensation thus increasing insurance premiums for ship owners raising the cost of cruising beyond anyone's means....'cos that's what will happen.
A billion $ is pathetic and pie in the sky. A figure that provides for the injured party [provided he is unable to work again] and family to live comfortably, and to pay for any medical treatment, for the rest of his/her life is what the figure should be. 4m is more than sufficient and a figure I would go along with. The report said the injured crewman was OK... if he's able to work again then the 4m should be reduced to 1m or less.
Pam..Shark Lawyers makes me sooooooooooooooo MAD!

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 05-30-2003 08:21 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pam....Couldn't agree more.
I like to refer to them as "bottom-feeders"
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 05-30-2003 10:03 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The infamous Oceanus sinking; a ship with badly maintained diesels, threw a rod which pierced the hull, and flooded the ship. The sinking was infamous since the captain and crew were first to leave the ship, and passengers were left behind with the lifeboats gone.

quote:
Originally posted by Britanis:
Even the latest nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers use steam turbines, not to mention shoreside electrical plants, both of the nuclear and non-nuclear variety.

I always thought reliability and safety were supposed to be some of the BENEFITS of steam turbine drive on ships- you know, the reasons old Mr. Vlasov insisted on turbines for Fairsky. Steam is supposed to be smoother, quieter, and more reliable. Diesel burns less fuel, requires less space, and can be operated by less crew.



Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 12:01 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Somebody was negligent.

I have to say I disagree there... This accident could well have happened with nobody being negligent at all. Not all accidents result from negligence... That's why they're called "accidents".

I'm very sympathetic to those lost or injured, and NCL should at least pick up their medical bills... And if they were negligent, I don't see why they shouldn't sue... But the fact is we do NOT know if they were negligent yet, we do not know what caused the accident, we do not know ANYTHING at this point but as usual this lawyer is jumping up and coming out with a ridiculous lawsuit anyway.


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
empressport
First Class Passenger
Member # 2511

posted 05-30-2003 01:00 PM      Profile for empressport     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cruiseny:

I have to say I disagree there... This accident could well have happened with nobody being negligent at all. Not all accidents result from negligence... That's why they're called "accidents"...
.


Yes, and suppose it was the fellows co-workers who were negligent. It's irresponsible to lay all the blame at NCL's door.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but the first thing I thought of when I heard the sum was Dr. Evil saying; One biiilllion dollars". The amount is that ridiculous.

I though George Bush had propose some tort reform to limit these kind of outrageous punitive damages.


Posts: 464 | From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 01:01 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by empressport:
I though George Bush had propose some tort reform to limit these kind of outrageous punitive damages.

Just because he proposed it doesn't mean it got through...

I'm not a big Bush fan myself but I have to say I think there should be a limit on this sort of thing.


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 05-30-2003 01:54 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cruiseny:

I'm not a big Bush fan myself but I have to say I think there should be a limit on this sort of thing.

Doug, you mean the Toxic Texan.
In the USA there are 4 stages to a lawsuit:

Discovery
Interrogatories
Deposition
Trial

Trail lawyers work on contingency only. They have to front expenses for a case. If they lose, they are out. Many will not take frivolous cases. But there are shysters out there and professional plaintiffs.

At the end of any of these stages a lawsuit can settle. Most slip and fall is settled in discovery. Most medical malpractice settles or gets thrown out during the interrogatories. Large awards go thru a deposition. It is always cheaper to settle than go to trial. Trial is the last resort and is expensive and risky on both sides.

The lawyer is suing for a billion, most lawsuits settle. The costs of research, expert witnesses, medical expenses etc. all come out of the settlement which can dry up an award. If the jury or judge does not like the plaintiff, plaintiff loses all. If he hates the defendant, he loses all.

Big awards you hear about on the news are rare, that is why they make the news. A judge can lower the award a jury sets.

Since this is a newsworthy case, I believe it will go to trial. If it were not, the parties and insurance companies would settle and not risk losing all. A judge usually presides a "settlement conference"

If no trial, I bet they will settle for $2 million.

Nathan, you are an attorney can you elaborate?

[ 05-30-2003: Message edited by: desirod7 ]


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 02:06 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:
Doug, you mean the Toxic Texan.

Oh no, not another political discussion ...

quote:
I bet they will settle for $1 million.

I think something in that vicinity is more appropriate. I apprecaite the trauma that this person obviously went through, but $1 billion is simply an insane amount, no matter WHAT the injury was.


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 05-30-2003 06:28 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PamM:

Accidents happen whether someone was negligent or not.

Apart from acts of god like earthquakes, lightening etc. accidents can normally be attributed to a person or more often than not a group of people, making errors - cumulative causation.

I'm still speculating, but well maintained, well managed boilers/pipes do not explode, do they?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 05-30-2003 07:21 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes Malcolm, they certainly can. I have a disease that affects the muscles and my knees can give way without any warning at any time.
I have no control over it so when it happens that'a an ACCIDENT
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
nathan
First Class Passenger
Member # 720

posted 06-02-2003 07:45 PM      Profile for nathan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:

Doug, you mean the Toxic Texan.
In the USA there are 4 stages to a lawsuit:

Discovery
Interrogatories
Deposition
Trial

Trail lawyers work on contingency only. They have to front expenses for a case. If they lose, they are out. Many will not take frivolous cases. But there are shysters out there and professional plaintiffs.

At the end of any of these stages a lawsuit can settle. Most slip and fall is settled in discovery. Most medical malpractice settles or gets thrown out during the interrogatories. Large awards go thru a deposition. It is always cheaper to settle than go to trial. Trial is the last resort and is expensive and risky on both sides.

The lawyer is suing for a billion, most lawsuits settle. The costs of research, expert witnesses, medical expenses etc. all come out of the settlement which can dry up an award. If the jury or judge does not like the plaintiff, plaintiff loses all. If he hates the defendant, he loses all.

Big awards you hear about on the news are rare, that is why they make the news. A judge can lower the award a jury sets.

Since this is a newsworthy case, I believe it will go to trial. If it were not, the parties and insurance companies would settle and not risk losing all. A judge usually presides a "settlement conference"

If no trial, I bet they will settle for $2 million.

Nathan, you are an attorney can you elaborate?

[ 05-30-2003: Message edited by: desirod7 ]


95 to 98 percent of cases filed never make it to trial. From my perspective, about half are settled, the other half are dismissed through dispositive motions (i.e., the defendant convinces the judge that the plaintiff has no case). Depositions and interrogatories are part of the "discovery" process.

In a personal injury case, a good rule of thumb for evaluating a case (at least in my part of the country), is that a jury typically will award an amount between 3 and 5 times the medical expenses. This takes into account the fact that the Plaintiff's lawyer receives one third as a fee. Unlike other countries, our American system provides that each side pays for its own attorney, rather than the losing side paying the costs of the other's attorney.

Unless evidence surfaces that NCL knew of a problem with the boiler, and ignored it, this really isn't a case where punitive damages would be warranted. Death cases are obviously going to have a higher award (if the plaintiff wins) than a non-death case, but it's pretty rare to see death cases settling for a million dollars. We defend some pretty severe medical malpractice claims, and we've never had a settlement or award anywhere near that. I'd say the families of the dead crew members would be lucky to get $500,000.

Also, Doug, since the accident happened in Miami, Miami courts have jurisdiction. I couldn't imagine why a lawyer would even think about suing somewhere else.


Posts: 534 | From: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 06-02-2003 09:58 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nathan,

Thank you, my business law class is 8 years old


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
latapx5
Just Boarded
Member # 3900

posted 06-06-2003 05:26 PM      Profile for latapx5     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the Norway is such a death trap, why in the world did they continue to renew there contracts and work on her daily? Obviously this lawyer is taking advantage of some uneducated individuals who is placing ideas in their heads!

[ 06-06-2003: Message edited by: latapx5 ]


Posts: 1 | From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-06-2003 07:04 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by latapx5:
If the Norway is such a death trap, why in the world did they continue to renew there contracts and work on her daily?

Welcome aboard!

...because no one expected lives to be lost, I suppose?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged

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