Cruise Talk: China Sea Discovery--again!

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Topic: China Sea Discovery--again!

Deck 9 001
First Class Passenger
Member # 1716

posted 05-28-2003 10:25 AM

Hi all,

This is getting to be like an ongoing TV serial.

Just spoke with the GSA for CHINA SEA DISCOVERY, and was told that CSD stopped sailing at the beginning of May and will not be in service again until the end of July, or so she thinks ... No reasons were given.

Can't understand why they would take her out of service at the beginning of "good weather" season here in Taiwan, unless she needed urgent mechanical attention. But then again, there could be other reasons!

I'll keep you all updated as this serial continues.

Regards,
Mike

Posts: 939 | From: Taipei, Taiwan (originally New York) | Registered: Dec 2000 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 05-28-2003 12:20 PM

I also think it was because she needed mechanical attention too, maybe her engines gave out...

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-28-2003 12:39 PM

I find it rather interesting that her engines are having so many problems, seeing as she seemed to have done quite fine until she was sold... And furthermore P&O had actually planned to KEEP her, until the Chinese gave them an incredibly high unsolicited offer ("that they couldn't refuse" if you will), so how terrible could she have been?

The whole thing sounds fishy to me.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Deck 9 001
First Class Passenger
Member # 1716

posted 05-28-2003 09:59 PM

Doug,

I agree with you. It does sound fishy.
Mechanical problems could be a factor, but in my opinion the basic problem is bad management.

Regards,
Mike

Posts: 939 | From: Taipei, Taiwan (originally New York) | Registered: Dec 2000 | IP: Logged

Britanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 2912

posted 05-28-2003 11:11 PM

This ship is *only* 47 years old, that's just slightly beyond her projected service life under normal conditions. I find it hard to believe her engines could be that bad so as to reduce her TOP speed to 8 knots! That's sort of like a car dying at 100,000 miles- with proper maintaince, that just shouldn't happen, and if it does, its a factory defect. Since John Brown & Company was one of the finest shipyards in the world in the 50's, I think its safe to assume that the second choice isn't much of an option, especially considering the fact that her sister seems to be doing fine over at Phoenix Riesen. My vote goes to poor maintaince and management.

Posts: 944 | From: Philadelphia, USA- former home of International Merchantile and Marine Co. | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-28-2003 11:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Britanis:
This ship is *only* 47 years old

Only ?

quote:
I find it hard to believe her engines could be that bad so as to reduce her TOP speed to 8 knots!

Agreed. It just sounds very odd to me that the ship was perfectly fine when P&O had her - so fine in fact that they were apparently in no rush to get rid of her and had no plans to retire her - and then she is sold and BOOM all of a sudden she is in horrible mechanical condition.

Personally I'd love to see V.Ships buy the old girl back and Phoenix to run her alongside ALBATROS but of course that is nothing but a pipe dream. It sounds like she's been fairly ruined by now.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 05-29-2003 01:35 AM

Did anyone else also hear CSC is looking for replacement?

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Deck 9 001
First Class Passenger
Member # 1716

posted 05-29-2003 04:21 AM

Mechanically, I can not say anything.
But, interior wise, she could still be brought back to cruising standards.
Get rid of all the "casino junk" and put in some new furnishings, new carpets, and please, put something on all the bare walls.
Thankfully, the structure of the public rooms were not changed or damaged.
It would be just like doing "makeup" for Mae West in her later years..............(Doug, Keitaro, Beezo, Britanis, kph06--all before you guys were even a glint in your fathers' eyes)

Regards,
Mike

Posts: 939 | From: Taipei, Taiwan (originally New York) | Registered: Dec 2000 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 05-29-2003 08:22 AM

Are you sure when they put in all that "casino junk" that they did not compromise some of her safety standards needed to be an ocean going ships again ? Why is her top speed reduce to only 8 knots if she is mechanically ok ?

[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: Ðraikar ]

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Fairsky
First Class Passenger
Member # 781

posted 05-29-2003 11:37 AM

The most telling thing is how her sister ship, Albatros, appears to being doing very well in her old age. V.ships- who owns and maintains Albatros- previously owned both ships when they sailed for Sitmar (1968-1988). V.ships has a lot of exerience running and maintaining these steam turbines.

It appears that China Sea's management just lacks the ability and experience of V.ships. It's a shame both ships are not both with V.ships. We may see the end of CSD in the not too distant future.

Posts: 1685 | From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 05-30-2003 12:10 AM

quote:
Cruiseny said:
Agreed. It just sounds very odd to me that the ship was perfectly fine when P&O had her - so fine in fact that they were apparently in no rush to get rid of her and had no plans to retire her

According to your "Regency Fleet History" P&O/Princess decided to retire the FAIR PRINCESS in 1994...around the time DAWN PRINCESS left. FAIR went to Regency, but since they went down so Princess took it back. I think they had decided to get rid of the two sisters in the early 90s. The reason might be they jsut didn't fit the "Princess" product anymore, but then they sent FAIR down to Aussi for a better trade.

[ 05-30-2003: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 12:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Keitaro:
According to your "Regency Fleet History" P&O/Princess decided to retire the FAIR PRINCESS in 1994...around the time DAWN PRINCESS left. FAIR went to Regency, but since they went down so Princess took it back

They never actually got rid of her... Regency went under before they could deliver the ship.

Oddly enough, they had a very different position a few years later - when PACIFIC SKY was brought to Australia, they actually decided to keep FAIR PRINCESS as well and move her to year round cruising in New Zealand mostly for the local market there (now THAT would be a neat cruise!). The Chinese then came in with an insane offer (something like $15m IIRC) which was so incredibly high that they of course took it.

In her first incarnation CHINA SEA DISCOVERY was managed by V.Ships but after that failed (or maybe after the second or third version failed?) they dropped V.Ships as managers... I think this was sometime before she moved to Taiwan - maybe Mike knows more?

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 05-30-2003 01:05 AM

quote:
Cruiseny said:
Oddly enough, they had a very different position a few years later - when PACIFIC SKY was brought to Australia, they actually decided to keep FAIR PRINCESS as well and move her to year round cruising in New Zealand mostly for the local market there (now THAT would be a neat cruise!). The Chinese then came in with an insane offer (something like $15m IIRC) which was so incredibly high that they of course took it.

What I am surprised is P&O Cruises barely suffles their fleet and you see Princess Cruises always moving their around the group. Same with Carnival Cruise Line. The only ship suffling(not including selling) they did was move the TROPICALE to Costa.

Maybe someone might know why P&O Princess decided not to actually put a ship in New Zealand. Would the VICTORIA be good enough?

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 01:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Keitaro:
What I am surprised is P&O Cruises barely suffles their fleet and you see Princess Cruises always moving their around the group.

Actually there was quite a lot of shuffling going on with that group... Most of it DID involve Princess, only because they were the major portion of it... But if you look at SEA PRINCESS/VICTORIA, the amount of moving around she did was astounding.

quote:
Maybe someone might know why P&O Princess decided not to actually put a ship in New Zealand. Would the VICTORIA be good enough?

I imagine the New Zealand idea could come back again at a later date... The cruises WERE selling well.

Personally I'd rather have FAIR PRINCESS than VICTORIA... The latter was sheer perfection when new but P&O really butchered her.

That said it seems as though P&O Princess wanted to get rid of all of their older ships and indeed with the exception of PACIFIC SKY and ROYAL PRINCESS (which are really just middle-aged) they seem to have been quite successful. It probably is a smart move - ships of a certain age just become more trouble than they're worth, sadly. Of course it's hard to say why they'd take one old ship (FAIR PRINCESS) over another (VICTORIA)... And it WOULD have been odd to see them getting rid of ships like ISLAND, PACIFIC, etc. and yet hanging on to the venerable FAIR PRINCESS. Then again these ships were superbly converted in the 1970s and have British-built hulls that should last and last...

The champions at keeping a fresh fleet are of course RCI/Celebrity... Their oldest ship is now SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS... (Hard to believe that she's nearing 20... We were on admittedly newer MAJESTY a few years ago and despite the atrocious food and service I quite liked the ship, and thought she felt much "newer" than she actually was. As usual, their designers were ahead of their time...)

[ 05-30-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Aussie1
First Class Passenger
Member # 25

posted 05-30-2003 01:57 AM

Cruiseny have you ever been on either the Fair Princess or Victoria? Having spent time on both there is no comparison, Victoria was a much higher class ship even after her dissapointing rebuild in 1978. Far superior decor, much larger cabins, hundreds less passengers when full, wood panelling throughout verses tacky plastic, far superior pool area amidships with decent lido eating area, great lookout bar verses no lookout lounge, far nicer resturant, larger foyers verses cramped stairwells........... Need I go on? Having said that I have always been a fan of Fair Princess, her lines were/are great but was/is no equal to Victoria in any way. (Except perhaps her nice sheltered promenades flanking her public rooms and better kids facilities.) Funnily enough when I was sailing on Victoria in June 2000 P&O were actually considering moving her back to Australia to run as an upmarket vessel alongside Pacific Sky. Sadly that didn't happen but we did end up with the Pacific Princess filling that slot.

Posts: 493 | From: Sydney,NSW, Australia | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Westerdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 2093

posted 05-30-2003 04:03 PM

THANK YOU AUSSIE 1!!! I could not have said it better myself about the Victoria. She was the best ship that I have ever sailed on. When I sailed in her late last summer she was filled with nothing but repeat passengers that had the highest of praises for the ship and every last one that I had talked to was immensly sorry to see her go. Even though I was only aboard her for a week I was able to see why everyone loved her so much. I only wish I could have sailed on her sooner. Fair Princess I can't comment on as I was unable to sail on her before her retirement my closest comparison would be Pacific Princess which I was also onboard last year and frankly she was-- to put it nicely-- "An over rouged ageing lady that needed to be put out to pasture." It was hard to beleive they were owned by the same company!! I could understand the retirement of Pacific Princess but the Victoria should have been kept on for a few more years or until they could have built an adequate replacement for her.

Posts: 329 | From: Waukegan, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 04:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Aussie1:
Cruiseny have you ever been on either the Fair Princess or Victoria? Having spent time on both there is no comparison, Victoria was a much higher class ship even after her dissapointing rebuild in 1978.

No... But I still think that I would prefer FAIR PRINCESS.

I guess I just can't get past how awful VICTORIA seemed to look, inside and out, after that horrible refit.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Westerdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 2093

posted 05-30-2003 04:42 PM

Cruise NY What do you find to be so terrible about Victoria's interiors? They were very traditional with many of the original furnishings and Artwork. Granted I have to admit the new cabins did leave something to be desired in comparison to the old ones but other than that she was a fantastic ship.

Posts: 329 | From: Waukegan, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 05-30-2003 06:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Westerdam:
Cruise NY What do you find to be so terrible about Victoria's interiors?

For one thing her layout was completely chopped-up by P&O... With the aft portion of the main deck filled with those terrible cabins etc., the main lounge given banquette seating to suit the inevitable "show", and so on. I cannot think of a single time that interiors have been "partially modified" with good result... I don't mean soft furnishings etc... But when they start screwing with the layout of a ship, the result often tends to be lots of different areas with little connection to each other.

Besides which, in the photos I've seen, the soft furnishings etc. installed by P&O look rather tacky... I much prefer the original Scandinavian style.

I guess it's also partly a function of taste; I think QE2's and CARONIA's current interiors are far below the originals as well... And the changes Princess made to all the former Sitmar ships, FAIR PRINCESS included... All of the are basically diluted versions of what they were originally designed to be.

I don't think there was anything WRONG with her, but I imagine the difference between KUNGSHOLM and VICTORIA was like night and day.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Aussie1
First Class Passenger
Member # 25

posted 06-02-2003 10:40 PM

Cruiseny, have you looked at the MaritimeMatters tour of Victoria? She may be a bit disjointed now compared to her old self but what remains aboard Victoria is magnificent. Certainly the showlounge isn't great but is at least as good as the Seaward Lounge on Fair Princess. Decor wise Fair Princess was dark and dull inside with much use of formica and plastic. Victoria still retains nearly all her old woodwork and simply glows and much more natural light reaches her public rooms. My hope was that Saga would take Victoria and rebuild her Promenade Deck to something like it was to renew the olf passenger flow while also reducing passenger numbers to suit their single sitting plans. They then would have a superior ship to Caronia nearly every way. (Except for a wrap around promenade and a small number of balcony cabins.)

Posts: 493 | From: Sydney,NSW, Australia | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

lebelty
First Class Passenger
Member # 3855

posted 07-06-2005 11:48 PM

Here is just a quick update from SSMaritime:

quote:
July 7 2005: We have just heard from good friend Mike Wall in Hong Kong that SS China Sea Discovery is to be auctioned off in Taiwan on the 28th of July. We believe that she should fetch around US$3 million. Having been laid up for two and a half years and neglected we will have to admit that her cruising days may be over and that a Chinese or Indian breaker will be her next destination.

tyler

Posts: 672 | From: CT/Maine | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

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