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Topic: Regisrty?

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-03-2001 09:41 AM

O.K. experts, can anyone tell me the significance of ship Registry?

Are all ships registered? Does the cruise line just pop along to their local maritime registry office? Is the country of registration significant?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

dockside
First Class Passenger
Member # 1622

posted 08-03-2001 11:01 AM

As with any other element of running a business, Ship's registry is tied to cost and how it effects the bottom line. In most countries, Passenger ships must meet SOLAS standards if they intended to carry on international trade. To minimize operating cost, ships are registered where taxes on the ships are lower, laws on employment are not as strict and Maritime Unions do not dictate work rules and salaries.
Couple these facts along with the Portage laws in the United States, it is no wonder the only US registered passenger ships are tied to limited service areas, like Hawaii and the inland waterways.

Posts: 52 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-03-2001 02:00 PM

Malcolm...A ship can be registered in any country in the world that operates a Ship's Registry - obviously not all do. The Owners must comply with the laws of that country regarding ownership and the actual nationalities of the owners.
A "Certificate of Registry" is then issued and this is a legal document, which gives information concerning the tonnage, ownership, any liens mortgages etc against the ship, and of course the Port of Registry where it was issued, and which is shown on the stern of the vessel.
Normally, the ownership of a vessel is divided into 64 shares and the holders of these are shown on the Registry.
There's more of course but start with this.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 08-03-2001 02:15 PM

This was another thing that started in the UK. The Navigation Acts from 1660 onward meant that it was compulsory to register a British ship. It was intended to confine the privileges of British trade onto British ships. These days it's a little different. A shipowner will register his ship wherever he wants and often the overriding consideration is cost. The country of registration or flag of a ship means that the ship will come under that countries administration. The MCA in the UK or the USCG in the States etc. The lesser flags (Liberia etc) are cheaper as the flag state is more lenient. UK flag ships are expensive to operate as they have very stringent regulations.
Interestingly though, the PORT of registration is completely arbitrary. You could register your ship in any port with a registrar. Cunard & White Star had their ships registered in Liverpool until Cunard moved to Southampton where they are now registered. (QE2 & Caronia)

Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-03-2001 03:26 PM

So would it not be cheaper for P&O and Cunard to register abroad rather than at home?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

David McIntosh
First Class Passenger
Member # 1737

posted 08-03-2001 06:48 PM

Something that cruise passengers should consider when checking a ship's country of registry. If medical care is of importance to you, the ship's country of registry can be important. My sister in law is a Doctor. According to her the UK and Norway have the most stringent regulations and requirements regarding the practice of medicine at sea. In her opinion if you're on a ship and you get sick you want to be on a ship flying British or Norwegian flags. US also has stringent regs regarding practice of medicine at sea. Not so Liberia, Panama or other so-called "flag of convenience" nations.

Posts: 124 | From: Columbia, SC, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-03-2001 07:12 PM

Hi...it's not just checking the Country of Registry that's important for medical standards on ships. It's the company policy that has most to do with it. Take Princess for example, they used to have their ships registered in the UK, Italy, Bermuda, and Liberia....do you think they changed the standards every time they changed Registry.
The best thing to do, if you are that concerned, is to check what is the nationality of the Medical staff and their ability to communicate in your language.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

David McIntosh
First Class Passenger
Member # 1737

posted 08-03-2001 11:31 PM

Excellent point.

Posts: 124 | From: Columbia, SC, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-04-2001 02:52 AM

Dockside:
Us-registered ships are NOT limited to Hawaii and inland waterways. They can sail where ever they chose. However, due to the JONES ACT, they are the only ones permitted to sail within the US. Foreign flag vessels can only sail from/to US ports but not transport passengers and good between ports.
Also, most of US flag vessels today and in past years have been build in us yards with heavy state subsidies, thus they are obliged to fly the us flag and carry expensive us crew.
GOHAZE:
It is nonsense to equate poor medical service - or for that matter any service - as being sup standard only becuase the vessel flies a "flag of convienience".
The Owner sets the standards of service, not the Country of Registry. Royal Caribbean when they started out had a Norwegian flag until years later they changed to Liberia. has their service diminished in any way??? hardly, they have grown the company, the fleet, the size of the vessels.....
HAL flies Dutch Antilles flag, have they changed since moving from Holland ??
As for cheap labour/salaries???
Whereas the salaries for the hotel department and unskilled crew may be a lot cheaper than on those ships who fly a "national flag", the officers are being paid well, as otherwise one would not be able to find qualified crew. Those vessels that sail in european waters, say the med, scandinavia, england and the baltic and fly a flag of convenience (Panama-Bahamas-Liberia) will have singed a collective bargening agreement with the ITF. The crew, above all the hotel crew, have thus wages which are in many cases much hgher than those paid when sailing in the Caribbean, as for some reason the large crusie lines have been able to fend off ITF!!! some cynical souls even believe, that they are paying off ITF to keep them away from Miami.
So, the main reason for the Registry are Taxes. However those tax advantages are evaporating quickly, as countries with meaningful shipping interests are fighting back. So have many nations established so called second registries. germany has one, Norway and England. Those second registries allow the owner to still fly the countries lfag, but also given him the right to chose the labout he wants, as long as the master and Chief Engineer are, as is the case in Germany> germans.
Any owner who takes pride in his trade, who is a seafarer who loves ships and not a beancounter who simply looks at the bottom line, will take care of his vessel and his crew. Regardless of Registry.Don't look at the flag, look at the company.

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-04-2001 10:01 AM

Hi Locarno...please read what I said regarding medical services...you've got it the wrong way around.

As for the Master and Chief Engineer having to be nationals of the country of registry, I think that has changed in the EU. Besides, it's a little known fact but that never did apply on British ships registered in the UK (it did on some Commonwealth ones tho' like Canada) As long as the ship stayed out of the UK the Master could be of any nationality.
I had occasion once many years ago when inspecting a vessel registered in London to find that the Master and all the crew were Taiwan Chinese. It was, in fact, loading for the UK, so using one of my many hats - that of a British "Proper Officer" I had to give the Master a written warning that whilst he could legally take the vessel into the UK, only a British Master could sail it out.
He told me that it was no problem as he had done it before, and what happened was the Owners got a British Master to sign everything and take the ship outside the 3 mile limit where he got off, probably on the pilot boat, and the ship merrily carried on it's way with the Taiwan Master - all perfectly legal.

As for the ITF, it has it's good points and bad points and I certainly wouldn't want to get involved in discussing that!!!!

...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

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