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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Would you cruise on a nuclear powered cruise ship?

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Author Topic: Would you cruise on a nuclear powered cruise ship?
PauloMestre
First Class Passenger
Member # 1613

posted 10-28-2000 09:19 AM      Profile for PauloMestre   Email PauloMestre   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a pertinent question to put on this forum; I would like to hear everybody’s opinion. The question: “Would you feel safe to be sailing on a nuclear powered cruise ship?”
Nuclear ships have been operating successfully on Earth’s oceans for the past 50 years, and are being built even after the “hype” created by the environmentalists in light of the accidents on Chernobyl and Three Mille Island. I said, “Hype” because if get sloppy on your work or the material is defective then a disaster is bound to happen. If the working standards are low and the material is crummy then we have all the right to complaint and demand the closure or the refurbishment of the central/factory/etc in question. We use oil as the main power source but oil is a dangerous, highly flammable and highly polluting, the main factor in the greenhouse effect, but I don’t see the environmentalists working to ban the use of oil, so something must be wrong with this picture.
If countries like the US, France and UK (and I’m considering the radiation leak of the HMS Tireless in Gibraltar) choose nuclear energy to power their capital warships then our consideration about the use of nuclear energy must be wrong (forget Russia, with them we can only learn the improper uses of nuclear power).
Said this I will try to weight the advantages and disadvantages of nuclear power on a cruise ship.

Advantages:
- Cut on the costs of oil based fuel
(Life expectancy of a nuclear fuel charge – 10 to 20 years);
- Decrease of overall costs;
- Increase of ship speed without an increase of fuel spending;
- Raising the standards of the crew employed in the mechanical department;
(if you put an sloppy crew on a nuclear ship than you are headed for troubles)
- Decrease on size of the machinery compartment;

Disadvantages:
- An increase on building costs, but with an obvious gain in construction quality;
(the design/construction standards must be high, and high construction standards never hurt nobody)
- Bigger expanse with the training of the crew;
(once they start working they start paying themselves, also the better is the training the better is the crew)
- Possible prohibition of entry on some harbours, or entry with high restrictions;(that would imply an change in mentalities)

So, think about this and try to answer this question with sincerity: Would you take your family to cruise on a nuclear powered cruise ship?

Regards
Paulo Mestre


Posts: 311 | From: Alhos Vedros, Setubal, Portugal | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-28-2000 10:55 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paulo, wow what a big question!

Yes, I would cruise on a nuclear ship if I thought that it would be safe - but can nuclear power be safe?

The fact that Governments try to 'cover-up' nuclear leaks and accidents convinces me that it is not managed safely or honestly. Can we trust Governments and Companies to put nuclear safety before profit - I think not!

No one can predict how many lives Chernobyl cost? The nuclear fallout spread around the globe. The fallout reached the pastures as far away as Scotland (UK) and probably got into the food chain in many other countries too. That's not just "Hype", it's a fact.
In maybe 20 - 30 years we will see a rise in cancers caused by radiation - but no one is likely to admit it.

Nuclear energy may be clean, but the nuclear waste lives on forever! All sources of energy pollute. But ask yourself this, would you want to live next door to a reactor?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-28-2000 10:58 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...would the Cabins become more expensive the further away they were from the Reactor? Would the Suites offer a lead lining?

(If you have seen the movie 'Silkwood' you will understand what I mean about 'trust')


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Patrick
First Class Passenger
Member # 364

posted 10-28-2000 11:26 AM      Profile for Patrick     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wouldn´t mind. Russia´s Far Eastern and Murmansk Shipping Companies have nuclear powered ships which are used for expedition-cruises and they go very well. One of their strongest ice-breakers, the SOVETSKIY SOYUZ, is a very impressing ship. It just goes through the ice like a hot knife goes through butter. Due to her nuclear powering, the ship is unbelievable strong and as long as they can cruise and exist, they should continue.
If the question comes up about if new ones should be build, I would think about but existing ones should go on.

Posts: 1680 | From: OSC Luxembourg | Registered: Nov 98  |  IP: Logged
PauloMestre
First Class Passenger
Member # 1613

posted 10-28-2000 01:29 PM      Profile for PauloMestre   Email PauloMestre   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of course nobody wants a new Chernobyl at sea but accidents happen independently of the power source you use. But the fear of nuclear energy is such that newer, saffer systems aren't being developed, that is, why spend money on better, more safe reactors when nobody wants to buy them? So old, defective systems are predominating and the chances of accidents increase.
Don't forget Malcolm that cruise ships are built accordingly to SOLAS regulations, so if the SOLAS regulations were to include nuclear systems and radiation protection, every new ship had to follow them. So strict regulations imply more safety.
And you don't even have to build every cabin with a lead casing, just the bulkheads, encasing the reactors in lead. And adding reductant control systems, I even add the ideia of a "no lone man" zone, no one mustn't be left alone on the reactor control room.
And don't forget that due to open air nuclear tests there was an increase of the particles of cesium-135 (the most dangerous natural element) floating on the Earth's atmosphere, even before the Chernobyl accident.

Of course there is another factor: the cruise companies tend to spare every nickel in running a ship. They would not spend some extra hundreds of dollars trying to safely run a nuclear ship, so they will stick to an diesel powered ship that doesn't need such safety details - just put some oil on the crankshafts and the engine will keep on working.

But my friends we must all remember that oil will not last forever.

Regards
Paulo Mestre


Posts: 311 | From: Alhos Vedros, Setubal, Portugal | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Chalk Dust
First Class Passenger
Member # 1272

posted 10-28-2000 03:52 PM      Profile for Chalk Dust     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Though it might depend upon who built the ship, I would certainly be inclined to travel on a nuclear powered ship. I trust engineers everyday. I travel in an automobile at speed that can kill me nearly everyday. I understand that there are risks. I also understand that the engineers are aware of those risks and have typicallyworked hard to minimize them. I do not have any idea whether such a ship could be economical, but I think the idea of a nuclear powered cruise ship is pretty neat!
Posts: 47 | From: Flower Mound, Texas, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ascendancy
First Class Passenger
Member # 840

posted 10-28-2000 05:38 PM      Profile for Ascendancy   Email Ascendancy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If it's better for the environment and a better ride, why not?



Posts: 354 | From: Aurora, CO | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
tomc
First Class Passenger
Member # 1624

posted 10-28-2000 09:49 PM      Profile for tomc   Email tomc   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and the glow in the air would be better than those bright hall lights.
Posts: 78 | From: Wilkes-Barre PA USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 10-28-2000 10:42 PM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Being a former reactor operator, I wouldn't hesitate to sail on a nuclear powered ship. That is if it was operated and regulated the way commercial reactors are in the U.S. Just who would operate it and regulate it is the question though. What if the cruise line was in financial trouble. Even though a nuclear powered cruise ship would be a wonderful thing, I don't think it would make economic sense. The nuclear plant I work at needs to refuel about every 18 months. The reactors used by the navy use highly enriched uranium, hence can go for years without refueling, but the upfront cost would be quite high. Imagine buying enough gasoline to run your car once every 10 years. What a bill! The ship would be out of service during the refueling time and not generating revenue.

[This message has been edited by JohnM (edited 10-29-2000).]


Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
geno-r
First Class Passenger
Member # 931

posted 10-28-2000 10:43 PM      Profile for geno-r   Email geno-r   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It wouldbe a great new place to "Have Sex". Next to the reactor and it would get "The Best PlacetoHave Sex On a Ship" thread going again!
Posts: 549 | From: Mt. Pocono,Pa. Usa | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 10-29-2000 01:00 AM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a question I've been asking myself for a long time but have never really done the research to find the answer....but why isn't the Savannah still in use? I know she is now docked and is a museum, but I wounder why they stopped using it???
Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
bostom
First Class Passenger
Member # 1628

posted 10-29-2000 04:26 AM      Profile for bostom   Email bostom   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They stopped operating the SAVANNAH because of crew costs, the same reason so many US-flagged ships are no longer sailing, at least with US registration. She also attracted a lot of anti nuclear protests in the ports she visited.

It was a cruise, if not a cruise ship: I spent two days and a night a couple of years ago on board the nuclear powered aircraft carrier DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER cruising off the East Coast as a guest of the US Navy. I never "glowed" from the radiation nor heard of radiation related problems (ie higher cancer rates) amongst the crews but did pick up an interesting "fact." Although the upper end of the knotmeters were covered to obscure top speed (and the needle was under the covering) we were told that if they could tie ropes to the stern you could water ski behind her, assuming the wake didn't make it too choppy back there.


Posts: 93 | From: Boston, MA USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 10-29-2000 06:43 AM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It all boils down to economics. When a ship stops at a port every day or two, and can take on fuel, why do you need nuclear power? It doesn't cost any less, maybe more, and cruise lines are operated for a profit I'm told.

The day will come though, when the economics will change as oil reserves are depleted and the cost rises. Unless someone invents a new energy source, every ship will be nuclear powered. It will be either that or oars and sails.

Actually, if you have read the thread on the S.S.United States, you could water ski in FRONT of her while in reverse!


Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 10-29-2000 05:07 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, I think you only need about 20 miles an hour to water ski, which nearly any cruise ship can do. I have often thought it would be really cool to water ski behind the QE2!!

I have often wondered the top speed of these huge aircraft carriers, and I have come to the conclusion that they can reach speeds of 60 - 70 knots. The hulls on these huge carriers are just not designed to go any faster before they start to plane across the water. Someone once told me that the engines are so powerful in these carriers, that if they were to completely open them up..."which they can't do"...the shafts would buckle and twist out of their holdings. That's a lot of power!


Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
bostom
First Class Passenger
Member # 1628

posted 10-30-2000 05:51 AM      Profile for bostom   Email bostom   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The officer showing us around responded to the "how fast can it go?" question with the standard non-answer - "We could tell you but then we'd have to kill you." Sixty to seventy knots seems a bit high if likely close but what was more remarkable to me was the complete absence of vibration or sound. The IKE just plowed along really fast through the swells.

We were all offered a few minutes at the helm and I still remember wiping the sweat off my forehead when my turn was up.


Posts: 93 | From: Boston, MA USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jules
First Class Passenger
Member # 1529

posted 10-30-2000 10:21 AM      Profile for Jules        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My main concern would be international terrorism. Security on a ship is much more lax than at, for example, a power station. How often have you got back on the ship at a port that either has no x-ray or it has it but they dont bother to use it?

It would not take much for a group so inclimed to get work on a ship (or go as passengers), then take it over at the appropriate time and head for wherever they wanted to target.

I know it sounds a little dramatic but seriously if I can think of it so can a terrorist.


Posts: 136 | From: Scotland | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
JP
First Class Passenger
Member # 1373

posted 10-30-2000 11:29 AM      Profile for JP     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The higher-cost crew isn't just the US vs. international thing. See: http://www.sandia.gov/LabNews/LN03-26-99/savannah_story.htm

Many years ago, I was able to visit the Savannah at the Patriots Point museum at Charleston, but their web site doesn't mention her. Isn't she there any more?

[This message has been edited by joe at travelpage (edited 10-30-2000).]


Posts: 280 | From: Minnesota, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 10-30-2000 05:01 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No way - I still want to have children one day, and I want them to be healthy. I used to be on the fire team that handled nuclear weapons in the Navy, and there was a reason we had to wear protective clothing. Nuclear ANYTHING is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS...

Ever ask why the LEONARDO DA VINCI never converted to nuclear power, although she was equipped to do so?

Also remember, the oil companies are VERY powerful and VERY influential amongst the free world's governments, and would happily quash any type of alternative to oil that would threaten them.

[This message has been edited by Rex (edited 10-30-2000).]


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 10-31-2000 01:34 PM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JP
Go to the Cruise News and look near the end of the entry for 10/9 for the present location of the Savannah. Very interesting article by the way.

Rex
I worked as an operator at a nuclear power plant and got some 'zoomies' before I got married and had kids. If you check out my website you'll notice my kids aren't totally mutated. Actually you and the general population gets about 200 mRem dose each year from natural background radiation. People living in high altitudes and of course airline pilots get more. Maybe thats why people around here like to remain at sea level (on a great ship of course).

John

[This message has been edited by JohnM (edited 10-31-2000).]


Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 11-02-2000 01:37 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
John...

What's a 'zoomie'?


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 11-03-2000 10:55 AM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rex, It is what we lovingly called a dose of radiation.
Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jules
First Class Passenger
Member # 1529

posted 11-03-2000 05:19 PM      Profile for Jules        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JohnM - I take it you had a quiffie badge or a film badge then for background radiation? Hope it wasn't black!
Posts: 136 | From: Scotland | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
BigUFan
First Class Passenger
Member # 1382

posted 11-03-2000 05:34 PM      Profile for BigUFan   Author's Homepage   Email BigUFan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I might, if only someone could come up with a practical form of fusion that really works. Fusion is far safer than fission, which is the current means of generating nuclear power.
Posts: 904 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
mrblanche
First Class Passenger
Member # 714

posted 11-04-2000 10:43 AM      Profile for mrblanche   Email mrblanche   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the ship was registered in a "real" country, one with real safety regulations, etc., I wouldn't have any trouble cruising on a nuclear cruise ship.

Imagine the improvement in the air in these ports, where there are often 6 ships puffing out smoke from burning several hundred gallons of fuel per hour at idle, just running the generators. Imagine the air improvement at sea, not burning 2,000 gallons per hour!

But it won't happen until it has to. People have gotten so paranoid (and you can even see it in the messages here) that no one will believe that it can be safe, clean, and less expensive.


Posts: 308 | From: Cedar Hill, TX | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 11-04-2000 07:02 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm waiting for the newest cruise ships to be powered by Dilithium Crystals
Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged

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