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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Gas Turbine Engines - QM2 delay?

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Author Topic: Gas Turbine Engines - QM2 delay?
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 08-14-2000 08:18 AM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The following may explain or may not explain the delay in the finalizing the QM2 project.


"Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. statement regarding the Celebrity Cruises ship Millennium:

"Celebrity Cruises has been working in cooperation with Chantiers de l'Atlantique, the builder of its newest ship, Millennium, to evaluate the ship's performance. The ship is equipped with the cruise industry's first gas turbine engines, and testing has demonstrated that Millennium has unusually low levels of noise and vibration.

"However, testing also has shown that under certain unusual sea conditions a vibration could be felt within certain areas of the ship.

"While this has not been, and is not expected to be, a problem on the ship's current European sailings, it is possible that the sea conditions in question could be more prevalent in the Caribbean.

"Because of the high standards to which Celebrity Cruises holds its ships, the company is working with the ship's builder to resolve the matter prior to its sailing in the Caribbean this winter.

"The joint effort could lead to a decision to put the ship in dry dock for a period of time following its arrival in New York on November 15. "That decision, however, has not yet been made.

"Celebrity Cruises will provide more detailed information as it becomes available and will contact all guests whose cruises may be affected.

"In the event dry docking is necessary, the company expects the bulk of any costs associated with it will be covered by contracts with the ship's builder."

(Source: Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. )

Ah ha!
As a retired railway consultant, I have been aware for years, even decades, of the history of (usually) futile attempts to mate the gas turbine power plant to the railway environment. France succeeded, the USA did not.

Then, as a transportation consultant, I wasn equally aware of the serious technical shortcomings when the US Navy did the same thing. Some worked, some did not!

Now they are trying again, and this time I can watch from afar. The railway is a harsh operational environment. Marine Operations are also harsh. Gas turbines are fickle, finicky, high-tolerance machines who do not take kindly to being "beat up" in operations. In airplanes they are fine, in stationary applications, fine, but in ships and trains - bonne chance!

This Press Release also indicates that the problem was not in the Azipods as initially reported. Or was it another technical problem?


[This message has been edited by Cambodge (edited 08-14-2000).]


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 08-14-2000 02:56 PM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cambodge, Taking RCCL at their word, Its difficult to see whether the vibration is actually in the engine installation or is within the hull generally.

If the problem is within the engines, it will require perhaps a lot of re-design work.
Remember the MILLENNIUM has the first MERMAID podded electric drives, not AZIPODS.
Personally I doubt if this area will be at fault.

The second type of problem is of much longer standing. One only has to think of the NORMANDIE out of the same St Nazaire yard. An added problem these days is that standards are so much higher than they used to be. The latest classification society specifications require extremely low levels of vibration.

While gas turbines have years of experience of operation in the warships of most naval powers, extreme low-level vibration has not been a design goal.

Whether in fact the pods or the gas turbines are to blame at all is still an open question. Rumours have it that hull shape may have played its part. It that's true then god help them they will have a major rebuild on their hands.

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Mauretania
First Class Passenger
Member # 1486

posted 08-14-2000 03:31 PM      Profile for Mauretania     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You both seem very knowledgeable on engineering topics - so I'd like your opinion on a story I was told to see if you think it is true. I think its a great story, abotu a crusty engineer.

When first completed, HAL's most recent NIEUW AMSTERDAM had horrible vibration problems. After some time in service, she was taken into drydock to have the problem addressed. Legions of technicians trooped aboard the ship with equipment to analyze the vibrations - to measure frequencies of vibrations at different revolutions, etc.

They were puzzled when the chief engineer presented them with a thick binder of data he had accumulated on the subject. The accuracy of his data was borne out by their own machines.

The engineer had already measured all the vibrations at differetn speeds while the ship was at sea - he had done it by placing a cup of coffee at various points and evaluating the vibration.

Do you think this is feasible? Or is it just a charming story?


Posts: 39 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 08-16-2000 02:03 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I consider this to be one of those possibly apocryphal stories, probably crounded in fact of some reliability.

Here is another, which I sure has been heard before, in many variations. As many of you know, my other transportation affections are in railroads.
Howsomeever the story went something like this:

Samuel Vauclain the legendary chief engineer of the Baldwin Locomotive works was traveling on an early Cunarder. (Do not remember which and when) In mid-voyage there was a significant mechanical problem, and the ship remained hove-to for many hours while the engineers worked on engines. They were not having much success.

Finally someone remarked that one of the world's foremost authorities on steam power and particularly in reciprocating engines was a passenger, one Mr. Vaculain of Philadelphia.

He was requested to visit the engine room, which he did. The problem was described to him, and he spent the next 45 minutes examining the huge reciprocating engine. He paused near the condensing system and requested a "large mallet." This was provided, and he struck the piping a few sharp blows, and told the engineer to open the throttle, slowly. This was done, and slowly and ponderously the pistons began to move, and soon, the ship was underway.

The engineer profusely thanked him, and offered to reimburse him for his services.
The next day, an invoice arrived from Mr. Vauclain: "Professional Services US$ 1000.00"
The Ship's engineer was a bit stunned at this and delicately informed Mr. Vauclain that he (ships engineer) could not present a bill of significant size, to the Company unless itemized.

Mr. Vauclain concurred, stating that this was also the way he did business at Baldwin Locomotive Works.

The following day, Mr Vauclain's then-itemized bill was presented as follows:

1.Striking main condenser recirculating system with mallet (Mallet furnished by Client) ........................US$000.25
2.Knowing where to strike ......US$999.75
Total this invoice ............US$1000.00

[This message has been edited by Cambodge (edited 08-16-2000).]


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mauretania
First Class Passenger
Member # 1486

posted 08-21-2000 03:28 PM      Profile for Mauretania     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I love it!
Posts: 39 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged

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