Cruise Talk: Problems on the Elation

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Topic: Problems on the Elation

LizKiddo
First Class Passenger
Member # 1167

posted 05-08-2000 02:20 AM

ABC News here (Los Angeles) just reported that a passenger was raped by two crew members on the Elation while it was in Puerto Vallarta this week.

They reported that the FBI has detained the two crew members when it docked here in San Pedro today and that Carnival acknowledged that some crew members were being "criminally investigated."

Don't know why I'm sharing this...it just makes me sad...another reason for people to hate Carnival.

Posts: 33 | From: Pasadena, CA, USA | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 05-08-2000 06:46 AM

Although Carnival is not for me, I don't hate them!

When you consider the number of cruise ships in the world and the number of passengers carried, criminal acts are pretty rare.

I bet you are safer onboard a ship than you are walking down your own street!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Brandon
First Class Passenger
Member # 1156

posted 05-08-2000 07:58 AM

That is so true MALCOME! 100%%

Thanks
Brandon

Posts: 117 | From: Miami Fl USA | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Molly
First Class Passenger
Member # 853

posted 05-09-2000 07:18 AM

Hate Carnival? Never! We had a wonderful cruise on the Fantasy in April 2000. Please don't blame a whole cruise line on incidents such as this. I'm sure they screen personnel as carefully as they can, but every business has sneaky folks who can get by safeguards. The crew on Fantasy were Fantastic! It's like blaming the whole postal system when one letter gets missent. We'll sail Carnival again.

Posts: 68 | From: Norman Park, GA USA | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 05-09-2000 08:03 AM

LizKiddo, you said that this is another "reason" to hate Carnival.
That means that you are suggesting that some people already hate them and this just reaffirms their hatred. Boy Oh Boy, HATE is such a strong word, sort of like NEVER. Following that line of thought, shouldn't people hate the RCI cruiseline that ran aground for no reason, and White Star lines because they trashed the Titanic, and I'm sure that everybody should hate the cruiseline where that young lady went missing in the middle of the night but I believe that was RCI as well. Liz do you hate the store that sells you something that dosen't work properly and do you, for one minute, think that they did this just to "piss you off" or do you take it back and get it repaired or replaced by them and keep shopping there.
I know that nobody can repair what happened in this situation but you can certainly try to prevent it from happening again. You don't HATE all drivers because you have one accident. This cruiseline like many others are dealing with perhaps 40 to 60 thousand crew people each year and probably in the range of 3 million pax a year. You know some bad things will happen putting that many emotions and feelings, both good and bad, in a confined area.
These same people that you talk about I'm sure would staunchly defend their favourite cruiseline through adversity and berate other lines for the same incidents at a moments chance. Small thinking perhaps but not a strong mind.

Sorry Liz but as you have gathered I tend to disagree with your HATE Carnival statement.

Nowgoanddosomethingniceforsomeonetoday.

[This message has been edited by CTrail (edited 05-09-2000).]

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 05-09-2000 10:47 AM

Amen CTrail! We just have to realize that there is a lot of hate in this world. Those two men that supposedly raped that woman on the Elation probably had some hatred in their heart, or perhaps that woman had some hatred towards those men. It's just silly and immature to hate a whole cruise line for something that two men did. There was probably aclohol involved...people's judgement is impaired when alcohol is used. Believe me I have heard of many rape stories on cruise ships of nearly every line. When you think of it this way...you get these men who live on this ship for months and months at a time, and after a while they can get pretty horny seeing all these beautiful women onboard each week. From experience I can tell you that some women are effected when they are at sea on a cruise ship. Some of these women may become filled with feelings of romance, have one or two drinks too many, and they may be particularily attracted to a man in uniform. Sometimes these women will do things they may regret in the morning. What I'm trying to say is that we need to hold back our judgement of these two men until we truly know the whole story, which we may never find out. I am by all means not saying that rape is trivial, it is most definitely wrong, I'm just saying that sometimes women get themselves into this situation, flirt a bit too much, and string along a horny young man a bit too much, and give the impression of consent. While I was working on the ships, casual sex between passengers and crew was common. I once worked with a Cruise Director with Royal Caribbean that was using Cocaine and would take women to his cabin and make porno videos. He was among the most popular Cruise Directors at RCCL. Another Cruise Director that I worked with was trying to drag a 17 year old girl to his cabin to rape her. She struggled and screamed. A crew member broke up the struggle and the family of the girl reported the Cruise Director. He was fired and I became Cruise Director. I am against casual sex, even though it happened all around me during my days working on cruise ships.

My point is that Carnival Cruise Lines is not to blame. Carnival did the right thing by putting these men off the ship and offering them over to the authorities.

Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 05-09-2000 11:06 AM

Barryboat... Shame on you, for saying that the woman was probably to blame for "Flirting" !!! Maybe all the women on board should wear sweat pants in the pool, so the "Horny" crew won't get the wrong idea! I just read an article about this in the Los Angeles Times. Apparently there were TWO women raped by two men. They just came back on the ship from Puerto Vallarta. They were drunk. The two men forced their way in their cabin, behind them, and took turns raping both women, while they were screaming and trying to fight them off. They reported it immediately. Both men now face the possibility of twenty years in prison.

[This message has been edited by Mercy (edited 05-09-2000).]

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 05-09-2000 04:57 PM

Just finished seeing a piece from South Africa where they are making political statementrs that rape is not a problem in their country. It is also seen in their country that if youi have aids the way to cure it is to have sex with a virgin which means very young girls are being raped. The police have been reluctant to act on the complaints as this would validate a rape crisis so the people have been taking things into their own hands and towns have turned out when the men involved have been captured and by the general public, stripped naked in public and flogged by all of the concerned parties and anyone else that wanted to strike back at the shameful situation. I know I have digressed but rather than 20 years of our hard earned money to support these people if they are guilty, this might be a better response. It has apparently been quite effective in towns that have applied it.
In Quebec a rape victim automatically was given the lash(belt) for a rape or vicious crime. The belt was quite a deterrent until it was deemed inappropriate because it caused pain to the offenders. The belt was a strip of leather about four inches wide that was mechanically applied and retracted at the speed of sound to an offenders back. The effect was that the skin was split where there was a hole cut through the belt. Only one lash was given each month. That way the back almost completely healed when the next lash was applied until all of the lashes were given. Repeat offenders were apparently nonexistant. But we are too humane these days and don't want to put anyone in pain except the victim. Better yet we want the victim to forgive the perpetrator so they can heal and move on in their life.

Rottenstateofaffairs.

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 05-09-2000 10:46 PM

Mercy, I have not read the paper regarding this, I have only read what was stated in this post. I did not assume that the woman was probably flirting, I meant to state that I have seen it happen many times on a cruise ship where a female passenger would have a little too much to drink, flirt around with the crew and find themselves later in situations that they regret. I hope this makes you understand what I was trying to say. Sorry if you misunderstood. I think rape is an aweful crime and anyone who does this should indeed be punished.

Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

LizKiddo
First Class Passenger
Member # 1167

posted 05-10-2000 12:35 AM

I feel the great need to clarify my own situation.

I do not in any way hate Carnival. They are all I've cruised and I can't wait to go on the next one - which will be, ironically, on the Elation. As a single gal living in a high cost of living area, I appreciate their lower cost for a lot of relaxing fun. (And I'm not of the "let's get drunk and spew" crowd...)

I just see all of the posts on here referring to the "Carnivalization" (not a loving-sounding term)of lines like HAL; posts about people jumping off of ships with replies indicating that the poster would jump off ship if he/she was on a Carnival ship, too (yes, I know this was a "joke"); posts that indicate a lower class of cruisers on Carnival; and other posts that equally seem to point towards an obvious dislike for Carnival and Carnival guests. Maybe hatred was too strong a word...

I do know that people...not necessarily you good people here...would look at that one incident on Carnival and not even consider cruising with them because of it. They wouldn't look at how Carnival has professionally handled the situation. That's what made me sad...because I loved every minute of my own Carnivalized cruise and I'd hate for incidents like this to prevent someone from the kind of relaxation and enjoyment I got...and can't wait to experience again.

And, in CTrail's honor...

TheONLYthingIHATErightnowisLATraffic!!

AndItrytodomorethanonesomethingniceforpeopleeveryday!

[This message has been edited by LizKiddo (edited 05-10-2000).]

Posts: 33 | From: Pasadena, CA, USA | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 05-10-2000 07:16 AM

Very well said LizKiddo. As you have gathered I am also a Carnival supporter.

Hopeyouenjoyyournextcruise.

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 05-10-2000 07:40 AM

How did the subject of a rape on a Carnival ship, become, "we are picking on Carnival"?
I have been on two Carnival cruises before. The last on the Elation. I have stated a few times on this site, my preference for other lines. And I had enough bad experiences on Carnival to NEVER go back. You may have had a wonderful time on Carnival and I am sincerely pleased that you did.I like to try new things. Please don't take it as a personal attack. We have cruised NCL, Carnival and Celebrity.And we are going to try RCCL in nine days!!! I still have to try Princess and Holland America. So far my favorite is Celebrity.
weallcanagreethatwelovetocruise!!!!

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

cruznut6
First Class Passenger
Member # 543

posted 05-10-2000 09:46 AM

Thanks LizzKiddo for restating you're thoughts about Carnival. I don't think any cruise line gets as much positive and negative views. Everyone can find pluses and minuses, which can vary from ship to ship, different lines and even from week to week. I haven't sailed with Carnival (yet), because there profile doesn't fit what I like in cruising. However, I won't rule them out as long as they maintain a good product. As far as the incident with the crew , the courts will determine the truth. I'm just upset that a woman today STILL is expected to "prove" her morals. NO still means NO! I'm a man and believe some of the sterotype comments made by a male poster above are rediculous! No one has the right to bother or harm anyone, not sexually or any other way!

Regards,

Bob (cruznut6)

Posts: 161 | From: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

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