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Author Topic: Norwegian Epic sea trials
Dutch
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posted 02-14-2010 12:31 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Frosty:

Here are the innovations you may have missed:

- 20 restaurant options (more than Oasis and 3 - 4X the number of alternate options of most newbuilds)
- Evening entertainment that actual appeals to the under 50 set - Blue Man Group, Second City, Legends in Concert, Howl at the Moon, Outdoor dancing at Spice. some of us won't miss the bad tributes to Andrew Lloyd Webber.
- Dinner entertainment - Cirque, dinner dancing (with live orchestra/band) in the Manhattan room, Teppanyaki
- Never before seen dining alternatives - Chahascurria
- Main dining rooms like Taste that don't look like the same brass, wood and chandelier numbers on other ships
- Single cabins with no supplement
- Outdoor sports expansion - batting cages, spider web, repelling walls
- The most complete enclave of premium suites - more than just a private dining area or lounge for suite guests, but separate pools, indoor dining, outdoor dining, gym, indoor lounge, outdoor lounge, outdoor sunning areas). Like a hotel within a hotel
- Fresh curved cabin designs with split bathroom arrangement. Spa cabins with 24 hour access and in-suite spas
- Fresh decor for cabins (though credit for the same can go to the Solstice class too)
- The most complete water park at sea. An expansion of Carnival's slides and Water Works areas - tornado slide
- Outdoor casino gaming... on the main pool deck and also at the outdoor villa club
- 5 pools - 4 outdoor, 1 indoor

Other than Oasis or perhaps the new Disney ships, I can't think of a more innovative ship in the 5 years.


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dutch
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posted 02-14-2010 01:02 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh yeah...

Epic is also the first mainstream ship where ALL outside cabins have a verandah.


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dutch
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posted 02-14-2010 01:57 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I DO agree that some simple design modifications could have transformed the Epic's exterior from being awkwardly proportioned to more aesthetically pleasing:

- Rearward (vs. forward) slant of the windows in the top two decks of the Villa Complex
- Step back of decks of decks 17, 18 and 19 rather than the current blunt face above the bridge
- Some blending of the rear edge of the Villa complex into the pool deck below... similar to the slanted edges seen on recent MSC ships
- A more prominent funnel stack.

The shape, angles and bulk of the villa complex is what seems to trip everyone up.


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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posted 02-14-2010 02:16 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch:
Ernie:

Do you think the density of Epic will be that different from Oasis? On your recent sailing, I believe you said there were 5,900 guests on Oasis. My calculation puts the space ratio at 38.1.

In comparison, Epic's would be 35.7 (unless 3rd/4th guests increased occupancy above 100%)


I think you probably realize that the space ratio only tells part of the story. So much time, planning, and $$ went into logistics planning concerning OASIS. RCI wanted to ensure there were no lines and undertook huge and expensive measures to ensure this was the case. Things like the terminal in Ft. Lauderdale, escalators onboard the ship, special signage, studies on passenger flow, revamping the lifeboat drill, security sheds in every port of call, making arrangements in every port so OASIS never has to tender, building a pier in Labadee, providing the ability to book almost all restaurants/activities in advance, having multiple free restaurants to ease crowding in the buffet, etc. etc.

All these plans did not go unnoticed and they worked like a charm. Without them, I'm not sure how successful OASIS would be regardless of the space ratio.

There is also the design of OASIS itself. The upper deck space is massive and there is a ton of space for deck chairs. There is also a massive area for sports activities and six different pools, each in a unique area that helps make each area seem more intimate. There are also three massive gathering areas besides lounges that help even out passenger flow and distribution. I'm talking about the Royal Promenade, Boardwalk, and Central Park.

EPIC has none of the above, and as I mentioned earlier a rather traditional design. I have also not heard much about NCL's plans to manage all the passengers. Are they putting as much time and effort into logistics as RCI? I don't know. The upper deck area of EPIC does not look large, and everything is kind of bunched together. I'm not sure if there will be an overcrowding situation. Also, there are not many large public spaces on EPIC. The show lounge is small and so are most of the venues. NCL is counting on using large outdoor spaces at night. This is great so long as it's not raining. If it is, then I'm not sure where everyone will go?

All my concerns may turn out to be unwarranted, but looking at the plans now, without actually sailing on the ship, I do see some issues. Regardless I have high hopes for EPIC and I can't wait to sail on her. I commend NCL for thinking outside the box and EPIC might just be what NCL needs to really put them on the map. They just need to be very careful that they think everything through, as bad publicity travels very quickly and it's hard to reverse the damage.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Magic Pipe
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posted 02-14-2010 02:17 PM      Profile for Magic Pipe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frosty 4:
Aside from appearance, I wonder how much drag is added with the "Block House". Seems like not a very good use of aerodynamics in regard to fuel economy. Then there's the issue of how it will handle in Heavy seas???
BTW we keep hearing about inovations. Well unless I missed them --please tell us!
Frosty 4

Air drag for ships like this is usually less than 1% of total drag. Removing two decks from above the bridge will have a very small reduction on the air drag, let alone the total drag. In short, the minuscule amount of additional fuel consumption created by the courtyard villa block will be more than offset by the revenue those suites bring in.

As far as seakeeping, keep in mind that the Epic, like all modern ships, has had much, much more attention paid to seakeeping during the design process than ships of the past. This effort, combined with her size, means that the Epic will be among the best passenger ships ever with regard to seakeeping.


Posts: 213 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dutch
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posted 02-14-2010 03:17 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Best detail of Epic yet in the attached photo:

http://epicmadhatters.com/wp-content/uploads/epic.jpg


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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posted 02-14-2010 03:44 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch:
Best detail of Epic yet in the attached photo:

http://epicmadhatters.com/wp-content/uploads/epic.jpg



Cool photo!

It really depicts how much space is dedicated to the Courtyard Suites area. Roughly 1/3 of the upper deck space. That is quite a large proportion when you consider that Courtyard guests will probably only make up about 1-2% of the ship's population. This is part of my reasoning why I think the upper decks of EPIC may feel very crowded.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dutch
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posted 02-14-2010 03:58 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yet most of the deck space above the Villa Complex is sun deck open to all guests.

NCL has kept mechanical areas on the top deck (including the funnel housing) to a small footprint, meaning 90% of the top deck area is outdoor space, open to passenger use.


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 02-14-2010 04:07 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch:
Yet most of the deck space above the Villa Complex is sun deck open to all guests.


Yes, but much of it might be unusable due to wind, even with wind screens. This is the case on most ships that have sun decks high and forward. They are usually empty on sea days.

It's good to hear the mechanical footprint is minimal. I for one hope my concerns are unwarranted, but time will tell. Word will quickly spread after the first cruise, and I hope it's all positive for NCL's sake.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cunard Fan
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posted 02-14-2010 04:20 PM      Profile for Cunard Fan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I find Epic not to be very good looking on the out side but at the same time her looks have grown on me. I almost find Ventura to be uglier.

I really wouls like to someday sail on the Epic but I have to say looking at the numbers and the layout of this ship I can't help but think NCL is going to have trouble with this ship. I could be wrong but it seems to me that this ship has bad flow and will probably be very congested at times. Also I know a lot of people seem to like the cabins but personally I still think they are one of Epics biggest flaws. Also the much hyped curved wall seems to be there only to maximize space so NCL could squeeze more cabins into a smaller space.

I would like to see myself proven wrong though. I want Epic and NCL to be successful.

I think I posted this before but here is my version of a better looking Epic without changing a lot..


Posts: 2327 | From: Pasadena just north of Queen Mary | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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Member # 1649

posted 02-14-2010 04:48 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, huge difference with minimal changes.

Nice job! Perhaps you should send to NCL.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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Member # 5369

posted 02-14-2010 05:18 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:

Yes, but much of it might be unusable due to wind, even with wind screens. This is the case on most ships that have sun decks high and forward. They are usually empty on sea days.


Following that argument it would actually be no problem since 'all' ships are suffering from that.


quote:
Originally posted by eroller:

It's good to hear the mechanical footprint is minimal. I for one hope my concerns are unwarranted, but time will tell. Word will quickly spread after the first cruise, and I hope it's all positive for NCL's sake.

Ernie


I wonder how the open deck space 'atop' the superstructure actually compares to the Oasis of the Seas. Oasis is larger but then there are the openings for the 'central park' area below which are 'missing' - of course, the 'central park' is also outside space which can be considered.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 02-14-2010 05:22 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
[...]

I really wouls like to someday sail on the Epic but I have to say looking at the numbers and the layout of this ship I can't help but think NCL is going to have trouble with this ship. I could be wrong but it seems to me that this ship has bad flow and will probably be very congested at times. Also I know a lot of people seem to like the cabins but personally I still think they are one of Epics biggest flaws. Also the much hyped curved wall seems to be there only to maximize space so NCL could squeeze more cabins into a smaller space.

I would like to see myself proven wrong though. I want Epic and NCL to be successful.
[...]


Giving your assessment which you posted above allow me to ask (just out of curiosity): Have you traveled aboard any cruise ship yet?


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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posted 02-14-2010 05:32 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

Following that argument it would actually be no problem since 'all' ships are suffering from that.


Yes, every ship I have sailed suffers from this, but then no ship I have sailed has approximately 1/3 of the top deck dedicated to a small group of passengers. My statement was based upon an assessment of the deck plan, in which it appears deck space will be limited.

quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

I wonder how the open deck space 'atop' the superstructure actually compares to the Oasis of the Seas. Oasis is larger but then there are the openings for the 'central park' area below which are 'missing' - of course, the 'central park' is also outside space which can be considered.



I don't know, but I do know that based on my first hand experience having sailed on a sold out cruise on OASIS, that deck space was never a problem at any time of the day. With four separate top deck pool areas, a huge Solarium up front with tons of deck space and chairs, a very large sports deck aft, and the Aqua Theater area in the Boardwalk, OASIS offered a lot of space in the sun for anyone seeking it.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 02-14-2010 05:48 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:

They just need to be very careful that they think everything through, as bad publicity travels very quickly and it's hard to reverse the damage.


That's my fear too.

NCL have obviously already misjudged their double 'studio cabins' which are now sold as singles. They have halved their occupancy and the drink sales in the 'living room' (sorry, 'Studio Lounge').


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 02-14-2010 05:51 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:


I don't know, but I do know that based on my first hand experience having sailed on a sold out cruise on OASIS, that deck space was never a problem at any time of the day. With four separate top deck pool areas, a huge Solarium up front with tons of deck space and chairs, a very large sports deck aft, and the Aqua Theater area in the Boardwalk, OASIS offered a lot of space in the sun for anyone seeking it.

Ernie


Oh, I am absolutely sure that Oasis of the Seas is a fantastic ship and your fabulous photos clearly showed that.

I am just not sure whether the criticism of Epic is justified at this time (yes, she is undeniably ugly on the outside). NCL is not RCI which is why Norwegian Epic is different to Oasis of the Seas - it's a different approach to offer people a 'cruise vacation'. NCL is not a luxury line and Norwegian Epic won't be a luxury ship. However, some of her features are certainly interesting and giving that she does not compare too bad to other (more expensive?) contemporary cruise ships.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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posted 02-14-2010 06:00 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

I am just not sure whether the criticism of Epic is justified at this time (yes, she is undeniably ugly on the outside).



Well, we did the same thing with OASIS when her deck plans came out. We wondered how she would accommodate 6000 passengers and what obstacles there might be. In fact OASIS came under a lot of criticism from many saying she was doomed to failure as there were just too many passengers. None of us knew for sure what the outcome would be but it was fun to speculate. The same applies to EPIC.

I have high hopes for the ship and I am putting my money where my mouth is. I'm booked on her in November. This being said, part of the fun for me is studying the deck plans and making some assumptions about what the challenges may be.

I did just have a look at an overhead view of OASIS, and the Loft Suite/Viking Crown area takes up a substantial amount of space on the top deck. Perhaps not quite equivalent to the Courtyard on EPIC but none the less substantial. This was no problem on OASIS so perhaps the same will hold true on EPIC? Time will tell.

I for one am looking forward to EPIC. She, along with OASIS, QM2, DISNEY DREAM, and CELEBRITY SOLSTICE have all been extremely fun and entertaining to anticipate.

Ernie


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Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 02-14-2010 06:33 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why is 'Epic' having sera trials before her exterior paint work is finished?
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Cunard Fan
First Class Passenger
Member # 7530

posted 02-14-2010 07:01 PM      Profile for Cunard Fan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

Giving your assessment which you posted above allow me to ask (just out of curiosity): Have you traveled aboard any cruise ship yet?


No I have not sadly (I have been on 2 relatively large ferry’s though). I have in fact I have been booked on several but each time something got in the way, be it lack of funds or family matters. Hopefully soon though I will finally be able to go on my first cruise.

Of course this means I can't judge Epic (or any ship for that matter) based on my experience on other ships. I can only give an educated (I hope) guess based on lots of research on the subject and everything else I have been able to learn over the years through CT, books and other sources.


Posts: 2327 | From: Pasadena just north of Queen Mary | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 02-14-2010 07:05 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cunard Fan:

I can only give an educated (I hope) guess based on lots of research on the subject and everything else I have been able to learn over the years through CT, books and other sources.



Not a problem. This is all any of us can do given the fact that ship is not yet completed.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 02-14-2010 07:45 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
[...]
Of course this means I can't judge Epic (or any ship for that matter) based on my experience on other ships. [...]

Everyone is of course entitled to have an opinion independent of the number of cruises one has or has not done. However, the comment you posted above is pretty bold giving your background. Of course, all comments in this thread on Norwegian Epic are speculation but some people who read this might not be aware what the basis of your assumptions is.


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Dutch
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Member # 14009

posted 02-14-2010 08:27 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guess we also have to acknowledge that there are plenty of ships in the 70,000 ton range that accomodate 2,000 passengers (Sun Princess Class, Vision Class, Century Class). While not roomy, I would never avoid these ships because of density issues.

Epic carries slightly more than 2X the number of passengers of these ships... but at 150,000 tons, is more than 2X the interior size as well.

It will be interesting to see NCL's follow-up to Epic. With some refinement to Epic's design, aethetics and passenger flow... perhaps F4 will be the ship to watch.

I admit that NCL is a slight underdog to Carnival, RCI and Princess... but I'm rooting for them. More than any cruise line of the past 30 years they bring new ideas to the industry - Air/Sea, introduction of the Western Caribbean itinerary with Southward, SS Norway, Out Islands, Alternate Dining, Flexible Dining, Intra-island Hawaii cruising, departures from Homeland U.S. Ports. Even though their quality is less consistent, give NCL credit for breaking the mold.


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dutch
First Class Passenger
Member # 14009

posted 02-14-2010 09:29 PM      Profile for Dutch   Email Dutch   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Several post sea-trial images on Shipspotting:

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1064672


Posts: 168 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 02-14-2010 09:36 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch:
Several post sea-trial images on Shipspotting:

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1064672



It's interesting that only one side is painted.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
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posted 02-14-2010 10:26 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Why is 'Epic' having sera trials before her exterior paint work is finished?

QM2 did the same thing, and lloked quite the mess when she did:

http://www.worldshipny.com/qm2pt5.htm


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged

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